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I wouldn't describe VVD as right-wing, to be fair. Currently, CDA is in several issues more right-wing than the VVD is.
by Nomad on Mon Nov 21st, 2005 at 06:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depending on whether the economy or social outlook is your standard, I guess.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 21st, 2005 at 07:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
.
You'll see the VVD moving toward the right to attract many voters who did vote for Pim Fortuyn or will stay at home again and not vote. The position of the LPF in 2002, the same where Geert Wilders and Hirsi Ali are positioning, is an electorate with a potential of 25 seats in Parliament.

Traditionally, the Christian Democrats CDA will stay in the center and it's easier to gain votes on the left wing of the party, former ARP and some KVP, who would otherwise transgress to Labor of Wouter Bos (PvdA).

The difference for next election could be the first voters, the young people who don't vote according to tradition and have an idealistic view of society. Much will depend on the state of the national economy, unemployment rate and ability for consumer spending.

Just this evening I understand Minister Zalm has a small extra of €3bn in receivables. Once the economy shows strength and growth above 2.5 %, daily life will be easier for all consumers. Dutch economy is highly dependent on export, especially with Germany, and therefore the Christain Democratic alliance with Chancellor Angela Merkel will benefit both countries.

For a similar economic recovery see the years of Ruud Lubbers in the eighties. Lubbers was very young and still inexperienced as a politician, but today for the CDA voters he is the best post-war Dutch Prime Minister.

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Mon Nov 21st, 2005 at 08:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... we could speculate that we currently have a right-wing government with D66 as appendix. Yikes.

It's not true, I think. First of all, if you entitle VVD as right-wing, either socially or economically, you haven't seen Dutch right-wing yet. How else could we describe the curiosity Geert Wilders? Or several prominent members of LPF? Ultra-right wing? I think that's not even true. There are people around with even more extreme, fascist aspects, but they don't form a party today. Mega-ultra right wing??

It's not easy today to pigeon-hole parties in the Netherlands. Even Labour and Green have moved at a numer of issues to the "right" as the historic social model was considered to have too many flaws.

by Nomad on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 06:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just don't think reform is necessary something rightish.

Plus, Wilders ís pretty much as right as you can find them. Lower taxes, more roads, no turkey, tougher penalties, higher road limits- it is to the right of 'the' VVD, that's why he quit. But the VVD is not a right-right party, but centre-right nevertheless.

by koenzel (koen@vanschie.net) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 06:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...sounds the "right" definition for the VVD, I agree there.

And that's what I more or less implied: VVD isn't right-wing, Wilders is, and largely the LPF is too.

I never said reform is rightish, there's actually a reason why conservative (anti-reform) parties are generally right-oriented. But that's not the point. I'm arguing that the solutions Labour and Green propose for certain problems have been cherry-picked from political programs generally proclaimed by CDA and VVD.

by Nomad on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 08:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting, I never thought to use "right-wing" as a gradation - e.g. I use centre-right -- hard right -- far/extreme right as gradations, right, rightish or right-wing as overall term.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 08:43:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe i should, too, to avoid confusion :)
by koenzel (koen@vanschie.net) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 10:34:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hence the confusion. I understand now. Perhaps it's just my mistake, but on the American blogs, right-wing is used generally to describe the far-right of the Republican Party. I think I better stick to your definition, though. Of course, this doesn't help to solve the relativity within the terminology: what is far-right in one country is considered only centre-right in others...
by Nomad on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 10:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hihi :)

I think only Geert Wilders would find himself at home in the Republican party, the rest of the parties would call themselve Democrats in the US.

by koenzel (koen@vanschie.net) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 11:24:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is why the fact that someone is a Democrat is no cause for comfort.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 11:39:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd imagine the SGP would fit in there as well :-) Not the ChristenUnie, though, they're far too socially-minded.
by Frank (wijsneus-aht-gmail-doht-com) on Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 at 04:07:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spot on. If Pat Robertson and the sorts would create their own party, he could practically copy the SGP's political agenda point for point.
by Nomad on Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 at 05:52:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The SGP is only very conservative on social issues. But they do care about the enviroment and people, as god's children have received dominion over the earth and have to care for it.

But you're right, I forgot the SGP.

by koenzel (koen@vanschie.net) on Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 at 05:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not sure either that my usage is the correct one - it may only come from erroneous equation with a similar term in Hungarian. But maybe on US blogs, "right-winger" can be such a curse-word due to the general dualist polarization of politics - even in the case of centrists: for them, "leftist" and "right-winger" are two 'extremes' equally bad, there is no PFL-VVD-Christ Democrats-D66-Labour-Greens-Socialists spectrum to consider.

(Hallo hello Americans lurking out there: can you resolve this issue for us? :-) )

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 01:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the VVD is a strange party, it's a liberal(as in free market- lower taxes)/conservative party. I'd describe that as right.

The Christian-Democrats show a tendency to turn into a conservative party, but they're not quite there. They also have a base which is left-moderate (the core of it, at least) and which is not happy with the way things are going. So i'd describe the CDA as moderate/centre-right. But not really a right-wing party. Yet.

by koenzel (koen@vanschie.net) on Mon Nov 21st, 2005 at 07:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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