Display:
If you believe this blog,
http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/setser/108356
 the asian are not funding the whole american bill anymore, at least at the state level; Bank of  Japan is  out of the business for instance. You have petrodollars coming in instead.
Maybe it is more stable? think of a middle-age prince collecting a tax on the land resources; The prince was not a parasite, but a mighty warrior; it lasted quite long as a system. What leads back at the oil-currency debate there.

By the way, the blog is interesting if you want to follow the topic of economic global imbalance, and probably known to the economist crowd here. As the author says himself, he is quite pessimistic about the dollar since some time now, but at the moment facts are proving him wrong, what does puzzle him.

What I have not seen in this blog and never had the courage to ask in its comments , being my english and economist skills too poor, is how sure are we that the deficit of the US with china is a real threat considering the following.
At least 60% of the volume of export resort to multinational or american companies. The chinese goods cost 1 to produce, and are sold for 10 in the west -ask any industrial manager, but I shouldn't lay too far. Where are the nine other dollars landing? If we say 2 to 5 end in the pocket of the retailer, where do we find the remaining at least 5 bucks in the trade statistics?
Between Shangai and Albuquerque, over the Cayman Islands or London, someone has to decide, and I don't believe that "someone" like paying taxes. But at the end, I don't know of any American successful businessman who wish to buy the Mansion with pool in China for his retirement, so maybe you can count that the money will still flow from "abroad" into the US, at the end of the day.
I don't know if someone can quantify that factor, but I would love to know.

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 06:37:37 AM EST
The chinese goods cost 1 to produce, and are sold for 10 in the west -ask any industrial manager, but I shouldn't lay too far. Where are the nine other dollars landing? If we say 2 to 5 end in the pocket of the retailer, where do we find the remaining at least 5 bucks in the trade statistics?
Assume that there are 10 intermediaries between the producer and the consumer. If each intermediary makes a 25% margin you get your 900% price increase. No single intermediary makes more than 200% of the original price (the $2 retailer makes in your example). The total GDP is 4600% of the production cost. Never underestimate the power of geometric progressions.

By the way, this is why the argument that "oil only makes up 2% of the GDP (or whatever %)" is fallacious. After oil input has fed several layers of intermediaries, each of them making a modest profit, the economic impact of oil is not commensurate with its GDP impact.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 06:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the benefit the consumer is getting in this whole equation.  he/she is buying goods at, say 10--30% lower than they would otherwise get them.  And I think we've learned from the US auto industry's collapse with Japanese competition, that these goods can be great quality,,,with cars, better.

Second, I don't know if you meant your comment on the "middleman" to be pejorative or not.  But the traders, the distributors, the marketeers, the transportation, the Internet that gives more visibility to smaller and foreign producers, etc. etc. etc. are critical to these products arriving in the US and Europe.  They are not production costs, but there are lots of real costs in there.  True in the beginning there may be some nice profit margins, but soon other suppliers and other channels of distribution start competing, and prices and margins fall.

by wchurchill on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 12:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please don't read any value judgements into this post of mine, especially since I use the neutral term intermediary instead of the loaded middleman (nobody talks about cutting out the intermediary).

I also make a point about the effect that adding a layer of intermediaries has on the GDP.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 12:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
clarification.  It was the layering comment that made me ask.  but I understand now.
by wchurchill on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 01:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
THanks for your response, but I still wonder where those layers end in the trade statistics.
Transport is not so expensive, so long as it is not a bulk product. I remember reading some examples, where the shipping cost was astonishingly low.
For the others costs, I guess the intermediary can choose where he makes his invoices from. Are the dollars he cashes prone to end in America, even if they appears to be in the trade deficit today, or could they end somewhere else if you have a switch in the opinion about USA / dollar as a safe heaven?

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.
by lacordaire on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 05:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry that I don't have time to write a longer comment, but lacordaire is right that Asians are no longer buying lots of Treasury Bonds - over the last 6-12 months, that role has shifted to petrodollars out of London.  I believe that the Federal Reserve Bank's Flow of Funds report gives the details.  

The Asian central banks had a clear mercantilistic purpose behind their buying, but the motivation for this new money isn't as clear.  Are they reaching for yield?  After all, US Treasury Bonds yield 1 percent more than Eurozone bonds, or 3 percent more than Yen bonds.  Are they seeking security?  Maybe, but then why are they also buying corporate bonds and equities?  Are they paying protection money to keep the US Army out of their nice little kingdoms?  That seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

by corncam on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 02:03:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in a portfolio of US Treasuries, corporate bonds and corporate equities, presumably he is doing so to makie money.  Accepting your numbers, the interest rates are higher here, so for the fixed income portion of the portfolio he is getting a better return than elsewhere.  He obviously knows that future currency movements can help or hurt him, so he likely thinks that it's unlikely the dollar will devaluate more than 1% ish--if it does he loses the extra 1% of interest rate, and he may think the currency will appreciate, giving him a higher gain.  He likely also believe the US stock markets are undervalued, as I do, and sees that as a nice opportunity.

I would agree with that view on US equities.  I would also agree with the view on the dollar in the medium term--3 to 5 years.  I don't know what will happen in the next several years.  But I wouldn't be surprised if that is a real winning investment strategy over the next five years.

by wchurchill on Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 at 02:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series