-- I am puzzled with regard to the contribution of prostitutes to world peace. This would include no doubt the camp followers who have accompanied every imperial army into battle at least since Roman times and probably long before? Or the legions of women forcibly prostituted for the "comfort" of occupational armies throughout history? Or the girls and women who "acted" and posed for the video pornography which was provided to US bomber pilots in Gulf War I for their pre-mission viewing, to get them "revved up" and ready to drop explosives on other human beings? When the Germans occupied Paris, iirc, the first businesses commanded to re-open were the brothels. Doubtless this was a sincere gesture, on the part of the occupiers, towards world peace? Colour me puzzled.
-- I am not sure why the example of "typical prostitute" that seems to spring to mind (for liberals attempting to defend the institution anyway) is a high-dollar dominatrix in a Berlin nightclub or brothel ... must be some kind of Weimar nostalgia trip :-) Anyway, given the choice between wearing an uncomfortable and silly costume and acting out silly rituals either at EuroDisneyWorld or in a brothel, I think I would very quickly choose EuroDisney... even if the pay was considerably lower, which it probably would be. neither set of customers could be anything other than boring as hell (is there anything more tedious than the same old dozen or so patriarchal sex fantasies with their trivial variations? yaaaawn), and at least I wouldn't have to get as up close and personal with the turistas at Mouse Heaven :-)
I should probably mention the recent (from Australia no less) book Not For Sale, a collection of essays critiquing the global convenience-sex industry. [Disclaimer: I did contribute some material to this book, but I don't get a penny from its sales, so there's no profit interest involved.] Also Christa Wichtericht, The Globalised Woman... and speaking of Weimar, for historical interest Theweleit's Male Fantasies (in two volumes) iirc (it's been a while) explores the connections between sexual fantasies, masculinity, national identity, militarism, violence and all the rest in the run-up to the Third Reich.
Lastly I suggest a valuable mental exercise for every contributor who sincerely believes that there is nothing wrong with prostitution, that there should be no quibbling about the perfectly reasonable exchange of sex for money, etc. Here it is: every time (every single time) you hear someone, including yourself, use prostitution or sexual accommodation as a metaphor for spinelessness, gutlessness, venality, dishonesty, vacuity, weakness etc. -- stop and issue a verbal correction. When someone refers to the corporate media as "presstitutes," interrupt and tell them that there is nothing wrong with prostitution, it is an honest profession and quite separate from corruption or cowardice. When someone talks about spineless Democrats despicably "rolling over for" the Bush regime or the US press "going on its knees" to Bush, remind them that there is nothing at all demeaning about submitting to male sexual demands, particularly if money changes hands. Every time someone calls a politician "corporate whore", tell them how legit a career prostitution is or should be, and how unfair it is to invoke it as a casual insult. Every time someone says "lies like a whore" or "whores around" or "what a cocksucker" or "he's Cheney's bitch" or "that sucks" or "I wouldn't just bend over for that" or "jeez we really took it in the shorts that time" or any of the plethora of other everyday expressions that reveal a reflexive equation of sex and domination, receptivity and inferiority... interrupt the conversation, and defend the whores.
Just some more food for thought. The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
I agree one should not extrapolate from some Weimar or Belle Epoch nostalgia. Neither should we extrapolate from those forced into selling themselves by extreme poverty or homelessness. I have addressed that by saying we should have other social policies to avoid such circumastances in the first place or to offer alternative solutions if we cannot. While I respect your arguments about alternative work, there may well be others who see prostitution as a better alternative. If say a student found that an evening entertaining a businessman/woman paid the same as working for 6 evenings a week in a bar and allowed them that extra time to study, would you deny them your choice even if they did not decide on the "legitimate" option?
The situation is not black or white but one of deciding which shade of grey to go with. I am reminded of a story about Winston Churchill at a dinner who asked a woman he disliked if she would go to be with him for a million pounds. When she said she might, he then asked if she would do so for a shilling. She responded haughtily "what do you think I am?" to which he said "Madam, we have established what you are, we are merely trying to agree the price"
Lady Astor: "If I were married to you, I'd put poison in your coffee" Churchill: "If you were my wife, I'd drink it"
If there were no cultural stigma attached to sex we'd all be much happier, as well as being able to openly discuss sex-related issues like reproductive health, reproductive freedom, rape...
So, yes, we should not use sexual images to indicate submission. We should talk about selling out instead of prostituting oneself and so on and so forth. guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
in a related note I have heard people who think of themselves as liberal or progressive joking about how they hope Bush and his henchmen "go to jail and get cosy with Bubba" -- a not very veiled allusion to prison rape. few people could dislike W more than I, but imho rape is not something I would wish even on him. (the corresponding trope on the Right I suppose would be the openly expressed wish that war protestors, especially women, get kidnapped and beheaded by Islamist fanatics.) anyway the use of vivid metaphors of rape, forcible penetration, voluntary fellatio and, implicitly and explicitly, prostitution, to describe anger, domination, submission, misfortune, or contempt are endemic to colloquial speech. and these attitudes are inevitably carried onto the street and into the brothel -- not to mention the bedroom, the kitchen, and the boardroom -- by the "customers". such speech is not merely "pungent," "colourful," or "salty." it encodes and expresses deep cultural beliefs about sex as a ranking behaviour.
consider for example the glee with which even liberal bloggers may announce that "Fitzgerald rips Cheney a new one," (an allusion to violent anal rape), or "Hirsh bitch-slaps Bush in new article" (allusion to the calculated beating of a prostitute by a pimp so as to inflict maximum pain with minimum visible damage). the language of rape, forcible prostitution, and contempt for women and prostitutes is the common jargon of the times, as common as "Jew him down" or "works like a n*gger" or "lies like a Welshman" were in my grandfather's day.
when self-professed liberals start to challenge this neverending stream of deeply misogynist phatic utterance, then I may start taking seriously the liberal claim to respect and care about the lives and dignity of prostituted women...
btw I think the anecdote about Churchill tells us what he was, more than anything else: a misogynist jerk. what kind of conversational opener is that anyway, "how much would you have to be paid to sleep with me?" I've heard better pickup lines from construction workers on lunch break... The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
DA, you sure remember the scene of good-bye at Southampton habour when the British war fleet left the UK for the Falklands? While the troops were standing on the decks waving at the enthusias-testicly cheering crowds on the pier their wives pulled up their shirts and showed them their breasts as a last salute. It was done spontaneously.
The same happened - so Roman sources tell us - before the Cimberi and Teutons engaged the Roman legions in battle in Padania. Their wives too showed the warriors their breasts when they left.
You know why? Have a guess.
Btw: I think working for EuroDisney is far worse than working in a brothel. There are hundreds of songs, poems, books, films and paintings about prostitutes and I clearly prefer them to the songs, comic strips and films about M. the Mouse and Goofy. The first are art the latter are pornography.
"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819
Funny I always defend prostitutes when they are used as something down or evil or as an insult. Always. I guess you would not find a lot of people like that, but funny, you just met one.
Regarding prostitutes and world peace, puff .. how many examples do you want?
Now seriously. It is clearly that you do not get my point. Only from a perspective where sex is bad and mind-sould is good, a reference that sex is a good thing for the human being is taken as something literal.
I think you fall exactly into the trap. I am sorry. it is exactly this vision about sex and about prositutes that generates the salvery according to me. If everybody would recoignaze that sex is netural, that sometimes a prostitute (in the general sense of using sex to obatin something in exchange) can have insisted on generating a war (there are some examples in the Bible) and that other times these same prostitutes have tried to force understanding.. if prositution would be normal you would read read my sentence as you would read "the whole contribution of physicist to world peace...".
Regarding the possiblity of defending that this society would be much more worst withtout prostitutes.. frankly I think I could make an argument in favor of that, but this was not the point.
A pleasure I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
A) i would like both choices..all choices....to be legal....thats the point isnt it? self determination.
and i would choose the brothel....mickey mouse gives me a headache.
B) again you have not only generalized about the clients but you are completely wrong according to my experiences...probably because you really dont have the experience of ever doing what you have a multitude of opinions on....one of my joys is my clients...they are fascinating....i love hearing their stories and getting to know them....i spend considerable time with them and remember all the details.....50% of my clients are regulars which is very high....im very successful at what i do and part of that is because of the way i treat my clients and that they know i genuinely care about them and this experience.
we are not all the same....can you see a world where we can deal with all the different issues, protect the people we need to protect, and allow the women who do what i do to do it without the threat of arrest?
