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I think the reason(s) for invading Iraq include all of the above, though some to a lesser extent than others -- e.g., I think terrorism and democracy both played roles, in that democracy might help to bring change to aregion dominated by totalitarian governments, but that role was clearly to a lesser extent than military bases and oil.  I agree that the "Likudniks" in the Department of Defense and various think-tanks -- they have enormous pull in Washington -- wanted this war as a way of providing more strength and protection to Israel.  I also think Israel helped push the decision-makers into going and helped to manipulate the information.

I have no trust, whatsoever, in the Israeli government.  Sharon is probably the best we can hope for right now, but I've been disappointed so far, in that I thought Abbas and Sharon would be able to make more progress.  That said, I'm not militantly pro-Palestinian, either.  Palestinians deserve their own state, as all people do, but Israel has a right to exist and defend itself against Hamas and Islamic Jihad.  Fighting for your cause by using terrorist tactics will win you no points with me.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Dec 10th, 2005 at 02:48:22 PM EST
Sharon is probably the best we can hope for right now

Huh. Huh. You should read up on the 60-year blood trail of the man. What's your problem with Labour's new leader, if we are here?

Fighting for your cause by using terrorist tactics will win you no points with me.

That goes both ways. What you call 'defend itself' I call terrorist tactics. Then again, the media in your country doesn't like to report much about stuff like the story of the second missile in Nuseirat. And of course, building settlements on occupied territory, especially now in 'Greater Jerusalem', and walls across arable land in occupied territory, has nothing at all to do with defense.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Dec 10th, 2005 at 06:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're bordering on setting up a straw man in your response to the second quote by automatically translating my statement into one of support for Israeli tactics.  What I'm saying is that Israel has the right to arrest and/or fight terrorist organizations in defense of its citizens.  I am not saying it has the right to take other people's land and terrorize Palestinian civilians.  You're putting words in my mouth.  My statement was a general one -- not directed toward any particular tactic used by Israel.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Dec 10th, 2005 at 08:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're bordering on setting up a straw man in your response to the second quote by automatically translating my statement into one of support for Israeli tactics.

That would be a legit critique of my reply, had it just been about tactics. But I contend those tactics are part of an entirely different strategy, one not primarily aimed against terror. I contend the right for self-defense is not the issue here, because Israel's actions aren't self-defense.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Dec 11th, 2005 at 06:12:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps so.  I would argue that it's only partly in the interest of self-defense.  But, again, I'm not speaking to anything specific in the original post.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 11th, 2005 at 03:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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