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On this measure Britain is going backwards. British police were famous for not being armed. Now they have a shoot-to-kill policy approved in secret without parliamentary review (and not very wide cabinet review), and applied by scared and trigger-happy commanders and marksmen.

Where I used to have reason to feel safer in the presence of police on the streets of London, now I am reverting to my Spanish gut reaction of crossing to the other side of the street when they approach.


In the long run, we're all misquoted — not Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 04:54:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Britain has the strongest gun controls in the world, I was suprised when I lived in France to find guns in the supermarket.
by ------- on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 12:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What supermarket, what guns, who had the right to buy them? I've lived in France for over thirty years aithout seeing guns in supermarkets.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 01:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I lived in  Montpellier the supermarket opposite my appartment sold rifles of a shelf at the back of the till, as did another one near my mother's house in royanne. So are you accusing me of lying because your tone is not very friendly?
by ------- on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't be silly. Your tone is unfriendly, non-stop. Of course I'm not accusing you of lying. But if you saw rifles sold to just anybody, back of the till, you saw something very peculiar and totally illegal in France. or are you accusing me of lying?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 04:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have indeed seen hunting rifles sold in a big Carrefour-like supermarket, some years back. These could be consulted by the public (they were behind bars), but it was written in huge letters than they were "category such and such" weapons and you needed a hunting licence to purchase one. And, having a pair of uncles who come from the deep countryside and indulge in hunting, I can tell you that licence in itself is not easy to get. You have to know migration times for birds, protected/endangered species etc etc etc.

So in essence, Stewart, who's grumpy as hell, has indeed seen guns in a French supermarket, but like Jérôme and afew have said in turn, these were hunting rifles and could not have been purchased by just anyone.

But the last time I saw one was over fifteen years ago, as I recall it, so maybe the law's changed and these can no longer be sold in places with kids, and maybe that's why some of us here have never seen hunting rifles sold in a supermarket.

by Alex in Toulouse on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 05:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And since you seem to want to make some point about British and French society here, let me say this: the reason you may more easily see shotguns on sale in France than in the UK is that hunting (I should say shooting) has always remained an aristocratic sport in Britain, while it is more democratic or "popular" in France (not to my pleasure, I admit).

But it is simply not the case that guns are easy to buy in France. You must have a valid hunter's license.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 05:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think if you read what i said, i said

1, Britain has the stricktest gun laws in the world.
2, When I lived in France I was shocked to see guns for sale in a supermarket, as one other has said they remember seeing guns in a supermarket I feel completely at ease telling you to go fuck yourself.

by ------- on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 06:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's it Stewart, I'm putting you on a diet consisting of brown rice, wild rice, barley, tabbouleh, couscous, oats, millet, corn, amaranth, squash, pumpkin, sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, onions, garlic, turnips, celery, and radishes. (look here)
by Alex in Toulouse on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 06:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll agree to your point that it's probably easier to own weapons in France than in the UK, thanks to the mystique of the hunter - thus hunting weapons are somewhat accessible, but I am nevertheless surprised by your point about supermarkets. You need a real, heavily regulated, license to hunt - and to own any weapon. If you do have a license, then you can own pretty strong weapons, but I don't think you can buy these in supermarkets.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 02:08:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I lived in France in 1988 - 1991 have the rules changed?
by ------- on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 02:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know. Like I said, it's definitely possible to buy weapons in France if you have the right paperwork. I have never seen any in a supermarket (but then I was not looking for any), thus my surprise at your comment, but I cannot exclude that it could happen in some places (especially in rural areas vs the big cities where I have always lived).

I think we are mostly in agreement on this point.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 02:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've seen guns in a big supermarket, like Carrefour. A long time ago. (well, in all fairness, I don't go to big supermarkets anymore, so maybe they're still there).

But these were all hunting rifles. Which you could purchase with a hunting licence. Which is hard to get (you have to memorize lists and lists of endangered species etc to get it).

by Alex in Toulouse on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 02:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have never seen guns in a supermarket, like Carrefour. On the other hand, you can get them from a sports supermarket, like Décathlon. Shotguns for hunters who have to show their license. This has not changed recently, it has always been French law.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 04:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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