My problem with this is point 3: the issue is that our governments ignore laws for illusoric diplomatic gain.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

I want to see at least one minister call a press conference, confess to knowing about this, hand over the evidence to the press, and resign for failing to prevent Human Rights violations and revealing State secrets. I am sure nobody would mind pardoning them after a trial exposes all the dirt from under the rug.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

I don't care much for penance 'cause I don't believe in forgiveness. And I don't think c) is the issue. There are already so many laws and high councils of this and commissions of that and high courts of this and that to "protect" us. It starts to look like the Soviet Constitution.

I'm angry on practical grounds. The US can do as they please and mind their own security the way they want, up to and including shooting themselves in the foot by using torture.

But if our intelligence services or gvts support or accept those stupid, counter-productive methods on pretense of being nice to the US, it would mean they are not doing their job of protecting our countries. It would mean they are just as much of a bunch of heedless wankers as their US counterparts. And that truly scares me.

dangnabit Jerome, once again you seem intent on reducing me to a zero...

Metatone