Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces (...) Although we don't accept this claim,...
(...)
Although we don't accept this claim,...
is profoundly irresponsible. Thr holocaust is not a "claim", it is a fact. Denying it is indeed a crime in several European countries and it is particularly obscene a thing to say for the Head of State of any country.
Now it is obvious that the Holocaust does not justify all Israeli policies, and that the ulterior motices of Europeans in bringing about the creation of Israle can be discussed, but you will never bring any sympathy to your arguments by denying the Holocaust.
By making such claims, the Iranian President totalyl decredibilises any reasonable argument against the current Israeli policies and actions, and against US policy in the region. So it's not just iresponsible and obscene, it is counterproductive and dangerous to all. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail
Stuff like this might be enough for, for instance, Germany pulling out of the negotiations around Iran's nuclear program. Iran does need some European mediation there, otherwise it will be just the US and the IAEA, and we know how that turned out last time around.
I really wonder whether Sharon's recent shakeup of Israeli politics is not an attempt to get peace with Syria, Lebanon and Jordan as soon as possible, in anticipation of a meltdown in Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Finally, I played down Ahmadinejad's previous comments, but now it's obvious I was wrong. guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
Seems the Iranian President is a horrifying nutcase in denying the holocaust and complaining about those, who take people who are holocaust deniers to the shacks. Fully agree with you that his words are dynamite for the hate they generate and I consider him recklessly evil.
Reminding us to the Pottery Barn's rule though, I take as a challenge that I don't mind to face. Just imagine the German younger generation would embrace the idea to invite the children of the holocaust survivor population back to Germany and arrange for them to have their property back in form of land and houses.
I would do that in a heartbeat (if I were sure the young populist and racist-prone neo-nazis wouldn't take over again and make a mess out of us). I dream of a Berlin with all the influx of Jewish academia, artists, humorists, merchants ... aach, that would be sooo beautiful. We could become a true cultural melting pot.
The regions my parents grew up with and went to school with up to 70 percent Jewish kids in the twenties would become a hotbed of cultural revival again. May be the free Poland of today would love to have the grandchildren of their own Jewish holocaust survivors now living in the US come back and visit and may be stay. Imagine that !!
If I think it through, I could have a dream ... like Martin Luther King ... may be would all could share the Holy City and leave the truly holy parts of Israel to the Jewish population, but definitely I would love to have them back in Germany, in Eastern European countries and France. Well, I guess I am dreaming, but ...
I met for the first time in my life Jewish people only here in the US and if it were not for them and their influence in academia, law and the media here, I would feel completely lost in the US. I just love their brains, humor and spirit. They are the most European Americans, no doubt about it, and that makes me feel closer to them than to other Americans. Strange may be, but it's true.
So, tell this fanatic Iranian President, that I would love to give Schleswig-Holstein (where I grew up) to my Jewish brothers and sisters, though I would recommend they better hitch-hike over to Berlin. It's just more fun over there. :-)
I have a certain kind of analytical training about what other people are thinking. It requires me to ask questions about what he really believes, vs jump to conclusions. The short mnemonic for this is "Is it 'no', or 'know'?" That is, is it a question of him saying "no" to the truth, or is it a question that he simply doesn't know (hasn't been exposed to) the truth?
So I ask: OK, this is what he *says, but what does he believe? Is this rhetoric on his part, or does he REALLY believe this. *If he believes the Holocaust numbers aren't factual -- seemingly true from his statements -- then: A) Is he open to changing his mind if he learns other facts? B) If he IS open to changing if he learns other facts, then how do (I) (we the human race) get those facts to him? In what form? Letters? Videos? I mean, folks, I grew up in the midwest of the USA, and people would vacation there from the East coast, and be TOTALLY astonished that the whole thing wasn't still overrun with cowboys and Indians. That is: a LOT of groups have seemingly ridiculous assumptions about places and peoples not that far from where they live. Another example: I'm surrounded by people who have ridiculous stereotyped attitudes towards Muslims, Arabs , etc. (OK, a list too long to go into, sigh.) I mean, I'm looking at this like I'm watching someone watch a weight fall from a tower, and then deny gravity has been proven. From *my point of view, it is very wierd to dispute the numbers killed in the Holocaust. From his POV (point of view), it seems to be normal.
I mean, folks, I grew up in the midwest of the USA, and people would vacation there from the East coast, and be TOTALLY astonished that the whole thing wasn't still overrun with cowboys and Indians. That is: a LOT of groups have seemingly ridiculous assumptions about places and peoples not that far from where they live.
Another example: I'm surrounded by people who have ridiculous stereotyped attitudes towards Muslims, Arabs , etc. (OK, a list too long to go into, sigh.)
I mean, I'm looking at this like I'm watching someone watch a weight fall from a tower, and then deny gravity has been proven. From *my
As far as I've gotten at this point is to toss that into the gears of my brain, or the compost heap in the back of my brain, as it were. I'm astonished about it. --
Clarify/add. I personally believe that there are hate-filled Nazis, skin-heads, in both the USA (ref the Southern Poverty Law Center's lists of hate groups, hate crimes in the USA http://www.splcenter.org ). And that those groups have horrible purpose when they deny the Holocaust. I think it's good that our western Euro/USAian societies try to limit those groups' influence.
Preview (should be) my friend.
I personally believe that there are hate-filled Nazis, skin-heads, in both the USA (ref the Southern Poverty Law Center's lists of hate groups, hate crimes in the USA http://www.splcenter.org ). And that those groups have horrible purpose when they deny the Holocaust. I think it's good that our western Euro/USAian societies try to limit those groups' influence.
