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Is that de tweede kaamer?  And isn't that the potty?

things fall into place, dig holes and wait
by Cicero on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 08:56:30 PM EST
Hmm.. yes, it is "tweede kamer", but I'm not sure I know any potty-related expressions featuring those words :)
by Frank (wijsneus-aht-gmail-doht-com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 09:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the name of a quaint little bar about 2 blocks from the Municipal museum in A'dam.

On a more serious note-  from visits to Holland I have come to the conclusion that the Dutch were heavily influenced by the people that they colonized.

What is the state of relations between Holland and its former colonies?  Is there a "special relationship" a la France and her former colonies?

things fall into place, dig holes and wait

by Cicero on Fri Jun 17th, 2005 at 11:45:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
.
In a way Dutch MP did flush the Qur'an.

   

Submission   ● Hirsi Ali  ● Hirsi Ali with bodyguard

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by Oui on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 09:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not flushing, meant to purposefully desecrate someone's belief simply for humiliation. "Submission" is a critique. Looking at the statistics of the amount of abused moslim women - in the Netherlands alone, I find it a fair and just call.

The line between freedom of speech and blasphemy is thin enough. It is the motivations behind the actions that should be put to the front.

by Nomad on Thu Jun 16th, 2005 at 04:03:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
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For the person she is, her life in overcoming hardship of Somalian life and her stay in Saudi Arabia. She is exemplary as an asylum seeker, finding education and a position in Dutch society, but foremost Hirsi Ali is an asset to the European community.

Theo van Gogh's artistic work, political thought and MP one-seater Geert Wilders are not my cup of tea.  Don't speak of abuse of Muslim women, without mentioning Dutch men are in no way better at identical social level.

Trouw - artikel over film Submission [nl]

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by Oui on Thu Jun 16th, 2005 at 06:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the comparison is a valid one either. But I do not think this movie was made to better the situation of muslima.  

I think Hirsi Ali is a very intelligent and creative person, but the movie should not have been promoted as road to better the situations of some muslima. I rather think of it as a therapeutic tool for Hirsi Ali then a bridge to reach muslim women in the Netherlands.

by amsterdam on Thu Jun 16th, 2005 at 01:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... that it could have been therapeutic for Hirsi Ali - but we don't know and I don't want to speculate. All I want to say that it is plausible, looking at her history.

I do, however, think that it was the intent of Submission to better the situation of muslim women - starting in western cultures. Hirsi Ali has been forthright about her intentions from the first day. I think, though, that the effects of the movie are nill - not many muslim women were reached or affected, it just polarized the debate.

So, my view in brief, it shouldn't have been promoted as a bridge to reach muslim women, yet it was, but it didn't really work.

by Nomad on Fri Jun 17th, 2005 at 03:28:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
.
potty? Gets direction to 2e kamer! LOL
Next time ask for "'t kleine kamer(tje)".
Perhaps easier on the bladder.

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by Oui on Thu Jun 16th, 2005 at 12:41:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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