Display:
We simply disagree.

The US public was not going to vote for an anti-war candidate in a post 9/11 atmosphere. I firmly believe that.

I'm not even sure that leaving Iraq is a good thing right now. What happens if...if ultraconservative Shiites take over, control the oil, a civil war starts and untold hundreds of thousands are slaughtered? Iraq can get worse.

I'm not saying it will, but it can.

As for Kerry and the last election, I thought he straddled the line well. You had to say, I;m willing to start a war to defend the US after 9/11. If you weren't willing to say that, you were marked out of the game. 40% of the electorate believed  Saddam had a hand in 9/11. That's how deluded we were. And that's why an appeal to that 40% would have been extraordinarily difficult if you were anti-war.

I think the case is more viable in 2008, but unfortunately our most prominent candidates so far voted for IWR.

by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 26th, 2005 at 05:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The anti-war sentiment has been pretty much discredited in the United States, since Vietnam. Post-Vietnam spin successfully painted the anti-war movement as largely responsible for the 'sapping of will' that led to the US defeat.

This is what I mean when I say that America did not learn the lessons of Vietnam, and now has to re-learn them in Iraq. When it does, being anti-war--and pro-diplomacy--will become respectable in the US. But I fear this is a long ways away. It's part of a long-term process of cultural maturation.

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Mon Jun 27th, 2005 at 12:11:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the great fear that paralyzes the antiwar left in the US. The Vietnam analogy stands up in many respects, but not all, and certainly there is more at stake strategically in the Middle East than there was in Southeast Asia.

It's going to take some serious diplomatic talent, and some substantive gimme's to Europeans and others to help us out.

Great comment, Upstate.

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Mon Jun 27th, 2005 at 12:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Look at the way the Euros are dealing with Iran. Look at how they maintained relations with Saddam after the Gulf War. I firmly believe you can actually cut some deals that will quell some of the violence in Iraq. Emphasis on the "some."

The fighters from outside Iraq are there for another reason. But the insurgency of former Baathists and Iraqi Army can be quelled once their leaders are cut in. The Iranians would cut a deal as well, so the Shiites would play ball.

Right now, American policy is hostage to Halliburton.

Once you cut the Iraqis in, however, the idea that Iraq will become a democracy modeled on NeoCon deluded fantasies is completely dead, if anyone actually believed it in the first place.

I think 2008 may be just long enough for the American public to realize how insane our foreign policy is. At least I'm hoping this is true.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 27th, 2005 at 08:55:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
58 comments

Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
36 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9
2 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
11 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

Recent Diaries
Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
36 comments

Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
58 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9
2 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
11 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Answers to the Renewable Energy Consultation
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 7

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

The Imitation Of Germany
by afew - Feb 4
31 comments

Strange Fruit
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 4
14 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Mismatch with the Natural Gas Market
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 3
22 comments

The Future of Economics
by ARGeezer - Feb 2
191 comments

Desert Island Discs - Helen's distortions
by Helen - Jan 31
49 comments

Gorila
by DoDo - Jan 29
14 comments

Rail News Blogging #7
by DoDo - Jan 29
15 comments

Obama's State Of The Union: LQD
by Crazy Horse - Jan 25
74 comments

Democracy Technology
by gmoke - Jan 24
1 comment

The Hydrogen dream
by Luis de Sousa - Jan 24
49 comments

ET Paris Meet-Up 2012 (2 UPDATE)
by afew - Jan 23
113 comments

More Diaries...
Occasional Series