Display:
a) these agencies are largely staffed by professionals dedicated to public service, as opposed to evil, soulless tools who would willingly carry out orders to massacre their fellow citizens for the transient political gain of their civilian bosses;

Now I fully agree with the rest, but I think the above is rather naive. Those not dedicated to public service seem to dominate nowadays anyway, "evil, soulless tool" seems to be a perfect definition for intelligence agents participating in dirty wars to me, and history does have plenty of examples for willingly carrying out orders to massacre fellow citizens for the transient political gain of their civilian bosses. (For example, read up on SISMI, Gladio, and the Bologna railway station bombing.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 01:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it seems to me deeply implausible that a majority of CIA or Delta officers, say, would take part in mass terrorism against innocent civilian compatriots such as on 9/11. For most of them it is squarely opposed to their training and basic ethos. I am prepared to assume that a tiny minority might agree to do so if exceedingly well compensated (which obviously rules out suicide missions, a decisive point in itself); but this minority would be seriously hard to identify among the vast majority of their colleagues, who would in any case oppose them to the best of their capability.

If you disagree with this, then I guess we differ as to what is a realistic assessment of the situation.

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 02:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps Jeffersonian Democrat would care to chip in about this? Given his background I'd give great weight to his evaluation, on whichever side it comes down.

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 02:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I refer back to SISMI and Gladio. I think the same nice words could be said of the majority of Italian intelligence agents, yet the really bad found each other - or some who were at top positions picked out the right ones.

The rest can hardly oppose them if they act clandestinely. I don't see how suicide missions come into the picture - the conspiracy theorists don't claim Atta & co were CIA agents.

Then again, I emphasize again, I don't believe for a moment that 9/11 specifically was an inside job. I am confronting your general argument here about intelligence.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 03:03:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Supplement: upon re-reading, perhaps I should make clear,  this line of mine:

Those not dedicated to public service seem to dominate nowadays anyway, "evil, soulless tool" seems to be a perfect definition for intelligence agents participating in dirty wars to me, and history does have plenty of examples for willingly carrying out orders to massacre fellow citizens

..is three separate counter-claims, regarding three non-indentical small minority subsets of intelligence agents. The first is the largest, it includes those in the MI6 going along with sexing up dossiers in the hierarchy. The second are obviously intel foot-soldiers working mostly abroad.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 03:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, at least we agree that only a tiny minority in the secret services/special forces would contemplate taking part in such domestic black ops.

My claim was just that "these agencies are largely staffed by professionals dedicated to public service," by which I meant to imply that given the massive scale of an operation such as 9/11, it would be hard to recruit enough traitors to pull it off.

About the Bologna station bombing I don't know much, so if it has been proven that SIGNI - as opposed to a few fascists in the stay-behind network GLADO - were part of this, I was unaware of that.

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 03:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
Occasional Series