~~~
But foreign languages were his hobby. He would study his languages in a weekly schedule, three languages each day, one of these a language studied only every two weeks - i.e., 28 languages in total! But he spoke well only seven, IIRC German, French, English, Italian, Russian, Spanish and Latin.
Myself, I speak Hungarian, German and English fluently (and would write in English much better - would I check for typos and would I not forget stuff when I constantly re-draft sentences in the middle of writing...), can read French, write and speak less well (currently re-learning); and used to know Russian but forgot almost completely. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
Pax Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian
Or, maybe there is more to it? At least anecdotically, I know that Chinese immigrants (my hometown Budapest is their European center; this will be a theme of an upcoming post of mine) find learning Hungarian is a lot harder than English or German - and for them, both Indo-European and Finno-Ugrian is totally alien. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
Unlike the Germanic, Romance, Scandinavian or Slavic languages, there is just nothing else like it! (Except Basque, right?) Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Basque, mysteriously, has no close relative at all. The world's northernmost desert wind.
You're absolutely right about the relation to Finnish, etc. But I still maintain that Hungarian is not like anything else. :) Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
(the KGB was renowned for its linguistic expertise) In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
The KGB had no idea how Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn had his manuscript published in the West - The Gulag Archipelago!
The world community is indebted to our musician - thanks Emmy.
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There is an anecdote about Enrico Fermi, the Italian nuclear physicist who also worked on the Manhattan Project. When asked about whether he believes in Martians, he answered: "Heh, of course, they are already here! They call themselves 'Hungarians'!"
Unfortunately, to understand the joke, I have to explain that during the Manhattan Project, Fermi was usually sitting at a table with five other European emigree scientists, all of them Hungarian (and most Jewish), who would often change from English into Hungarian during their debates, leaving Fermi to sit stupified. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
My favorite explanation of Basque's origins comes from my Basque friend who claims that Basques came from Atlantis. :-)
I'm in the process of adding Basque to my list of languages (joining English, Spanish, French, and smatterings of German and Swedish) though at this point I find Basque so complicated that it's hard to imagine getting much beyond the level of basic phrases!
I have my own, less flattering pet theory: They are the descendants of Neanderthals, who perished on the Iberian peninsula some 30 000 years ago... ;-) The world's northernmost desert wind.
Aye... Southeastern Europe has a lot of these (and the fools who believe it are often rabid chauvinist politicians, so it is less funny).
For example, in Hungary there is 'theory' that Sumerians were Hungarians... *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
Hungarian is maybe more special than other Finno-Ugrian languages because it is separated from even its closest relatives (spoken by two small ethnics which get assimilated by Russians).
However, don't take language families that seriously; there is enough 'cross-pollination' and mixing to make the 'tracking back' of languages unreasonable beyond some length of time. For example, Hungarian borrowed heavily from (or, was born as a mixture of a Finno-Ugric and:) Turkic languages, Slavic languages, Latin, and German languages (in this order of time); and many words were newly created from old or made-up roots by the language reform movement 200 years ago. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
Thus, many Norwegians find it fairly easy to read Danish and understand spoken Swedish, while often hard put to comprehend what Danes are saying ("Danish isn't a language but a throat condition," as the expression goes) and finding it somewhat straining to read Swedish. Danes and Swedes also understand each other in general, but with ample misunderstandings - sometimes compounded by cultural differences.
To communicate smoothly across the languages one has to learn a glossary of terms and, above all, be aware that words can have different meanings. 'Pule' for instance, means 'play' in Swedish and, well, 'fuck' in Norwegian. I imagine it's a bit like Spanish and Portuguese, but since I speak neither I don't really know how mutually intelligible those are. The world's northernmost desert wind.
Spanish and Portugese are really similar. I actually think that Catalan is father from Spanish than Portugese (and Gallego) is. I speak only Spanish, but I find that I can comprehend written Portugese with a little bit of trouble. I had a Brazilian friend who tried to help us learn some portugese, and then we taught him some English.
If you want to try to learn a really hard language try to learn Basque, it's nothing like Spanish. Speaking of Basque, I wonder if anyone else saw the mess at the illegal rally by the basque seperatist party Batasuna. You know how Scots have the cable toss? I think that the annual torch the trash bin and hurl towards the police might be the quintessential Basque sport. I think that this also explains the odd "No hot ashes" signs on trash bins near the apartment I lived in. And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
I learnt German well enough to speak it (and discuss the Wiedervereinigung extensively at that time), but it has been supplanted by Russian in regular use and I've lost most of it. But German sentences always look right to me, I've never been bothered by the order of words, it feels rights (that's from growing up in Strasbourg).
I should speak Spanish (having the Venezuelan nationality), but I don't really. I re-learn it quickly when I am fully immersed... In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
I chose Russian because while I can read French much more easily, I think my speaking skills fall on the Russian end of things. Extremely out of practice with both though... And I have never claimed fluency in either. But somehow got by in both France and Russia speaking little or no English (maybe that's why the French never seemed too rude to me?)...
My job involves working with materials published in all European languages, incl. Greek and Latin. So I have picked up a smattering of other languages along the way, but mostly vocabulary specific to publishing and research.
Still, I am sure any skills I have pale compared to those of the Europeans in the room. I really envy that you have so many opportunities to speak a variety of languages. I find I get rusty pretty quickly. But once I am immersed in a language it also comes back pretty quickly. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Well, that happened to me too! I can understand Spanish pretty well if it is railway literature, and all of that is self-taught (I just used a dictionary, figured out the grammar by myself). Also a bit of Italian. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
I've been learning Portuguese for almost three years. I speak it about two hours a week. I've taken a couple of trips to Brazil during this time and that improved my abilities.
I'm glad the question is about languages we 'speak' because I've always found it more difficult to learn to read and write additional languages rather than learning to speak and understand. To my native English ear, both French and Portuguese have a cadence that can't be learned from studying books. The lyricism of the languages is what makes them fun to speak. English is a rather 'flat' language, although dialects in some countries, like Jamaica and Australia, have a pleasant modulation.
I had to take Latin and Spanish in school but wasn't much interested at the time. One of the reasons native born Americans are less likely to be multilingual is that our normal school curriculum does not require study of foreign languages before the age of 13 or 14. I think that's a bit late for most students.
I know! Oh, how I wish I could have begun learning a second or third language early on. Classes weren't even offered until high school (age 14). And yet studies all agree that the best time to learn languages is early on. So I have been stocking my baby niece's library full of foreign language books and tapes in the hopes that she can get a head start. :) Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
And after reading everyone's multilingual abilities I feel like a real moron. About the only phrase that sticks in my mind that my grandmother taught me is either Polish or Bohemian-'ya milooyou tebeh'..phonetically and I believe means 'I love you'? "People never do evil so throughly and happily as when they do it from moral conviction."-Blaise Pascal
I learned Spanish the hard way via gov't tapes. It was more thorough but far, far too rigid and what you really want in a language is to feel like speaking it is no chore.
Grew up speaking Polish at home,it is strictly speaking my first language and my 'mother tongue' but once I started school English became my best language.
French - after two years in Geneva refusing to learn French my parents put me in a French speaking school - problem solved though the first couple months were pretty miserable.
German - several Goethe Institute intensive summer courses followed by an extended stay in Germany hanging out in the archives. My spoken German is currently a bit rusty though I do speak it occasionally. On the other hand I read it on a virtually daily basis for my work.
Russian - a bunch of classes, never really took. I can make out an article if I have to or fake a conversation using what I remember combined with throwing in Polish words but I can't say I actually know Russian.
That's how I learned German :-)
Actually, my grandfather begun to teach me German at home for a few weeks, but that was of little use: spoken German (Hessen dialect) was unintelligble for me during the first few weeks, and I even had to re-learn my initial knowledge of words by then. On the other hand, I was lucky: there was a kid in my class whose parents were ethnic Hungarian immigrants from Yugoslavia, so I had a 'translator'. Yet again on the other hand, the class was already learning English for a year, and just began French*, so I had to fast-track learning three languages at the same time!
*: I was a good French student, I can also tell that now from stuff I have written back then, but regrettably, I almost comletely forgot it due to lack of usage - am currently in the process of re-learning in a language class organised by my company. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
This is indeed a resource to be used here.
It is an official language in Romania, Moldova and the autonomous region of Vojvodina in Serbia.
I'm always amazed us Americans can learn anything but English since we're raised in such a monocultural environment. I'm proud of my parents for learning some Spanish in their "old age"! :) Gosh and my father has spoken nothing but English his entire life with maybe a "grazie" or "merci" mixed in there.
Superficially, it seems closest to French - just having seen Romanian written.
Or is it much diff't than Spanish, Portugese, French, and Italian altogether - ie a whole different branch from these four which share more with each other than any of them - individually do - with Romanian?
Poemless, you are very kind. My Bulgarian is good, but not yet fluent.
What I would be interested in: What's the proportion of native English speakers to non-native English speakers on Eurokos?
I meant Eurotrib.
Like others upthread I am awed by the multilingual amongst us.
Oddly enough- I can only read in German and French, I neither speak nor write. I can speak, but not read or write Spanish.
Of course I also know the universal language American Exasperanto, a complex toanl language that involves waving ones arms and repeating simple English phrases while getting louder and louder. It is almost always understood. However, almost every phrase is easily mistranslated as "please spit in my food." things fall into place, dig holes and wait
I think this also translates to please perform an anal cavity search to the average foreign customs officer. Back a few years when I was flying home from Spain, I saw this elderly American man trying to find his plane talking to this customs officer. He just keeps getting louder and louder in English, which she doesn't understand. So he just decides to try to get on a plane to Damascus. So I kid you not, the customs officer leads away the guy with his wife snapping on a pair of rubber gloves
And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
I'm also in the process of beginning to learn Spanish.
BTW, for those looking to get a foot in the door with a language - and if you aren't immersed - try Pimsleur. Its by far the best language learning course.
I recently took a one-year adult course in Japanese. I can speak enough to to get by, but Kan-ji reading and writing is tough to learn! You need to recognize at least four thousand of those characters to read well at all!
I can read French and some German. I had an extensive knowledge of old Latin at one time that helps me read some Italian and Spanish, too - always with a whatever-english translation dictionary in hand though. As for speaking any of those, that's a different story altogether... jus' tryin' to speek them thar furrin langwijiz gets me plum tuckered out in a Nu Yark minit... :) Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." Robert A. Heinlein
The two most important words a man should know in any language: "yes, dear." ;)
Hm, now who said that...? Humphrey Bogart? The world's northernmost desert wind.
Methinks though that he said either that, or this: "A wise man does not contradict his wife; he waits until she does it herself."
Picture of the day: Bogie in Sirocco (1951). ;-)
The world's northernmost desert wind.
A friend of mine took Russian because the instructor was reputed to be very generous, but he was not sure he passed the final. So he went to see the instructor before the final results were announced (hoping to persuade the instructor to give him the credit). As he discovered, he had scored only 7 out of 100. I will become a patissier, God willing.
And excerpt:
"Things began to come together, and I went from speaking like an evil baby to speaking like a hillbilly. "Is them the thoughts of cows?" I'd ask the butcher, pointing to the calves' brains displayed in the front window. "I want me some lamb chops with handles on `em."" Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Teufel means devil - baptism is :Taufe, only two letters. (I told her afterwards, after I had calmed down my sister and she stopped laughing, that if she had remembered that Teufel is male and Taufe is female she would not have made that mistake.)
Friend - "Zwei Bier bitte." Bartender - "Was?" Friend - "Zwei Bier bitte." Bartender - "Was?" (Just can't understand the thick southern accent.)
Ok, this same exchange happens one more time and my frustrated southern friend says: "two fucking beers, please!"
Bartender, in perfect English, replies: "That's better." Then promptly hands over two beers. :)
And Swiss German(s)...
I remember one time in a restaurant in the German speaking part of the Valais (Wallis) a bilingual mountainous canton in southern Switzerland.
A Swiss German guy at the next table is try to order.
Ich moechte Roesti (traditional Swiss dish of shredded potatos, baked in a clay container, sometimes other stuff added) Was moechten Sie? Roesti Was? Roesti!
this went on for a while till the waiter suddenly said 'aaah Roesti.' The Swiss Germans don't even understand each other sometimes, every damn valley has its own dialect. It's why the Swiss French complain that it is no use bothering to learn German, only the educated actually speak it and even they don't do so amongst themselves.
God I hate Dialekt (that and handwritten old German script. Completely illegible. Different alphabet basically where every letter looks the same in cursive, a good reason to stick to post WWII history)
And Sütterlin ... ooh, that's just not right... Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
There is one valley in the French part of Valois/Wallis inhabited by people with some mongoloid traits (especially eyes). The mythology has them as a marauding Hungarian tribe who decided to settle there, or alternatively, Huns a few centuries earlier. *Traitor*, n. A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
