Okay, not really -- I have some serious thoughts on this, actually. I don't know all the answers, but I think a huge thing that would help immediately is to get the junk food out of our schools. I don't know if this has spead to Europe, but we have a ton of crap in the schools.
Cash-strapped schools have let in soda machines and other stuff. I believe education is a good idea, but we already do have it in most schools. Any answer that doesn't involve stopping corporate fast food sponsorship in schools is just hot air as far as I'm concerned.
I'd also like to see some sort of reduction or regulation or something of advertising aimed at kids.
I think Page brings up another factor -- we're really busy and stressed over here. It's becoming quite typical for people to work two jobs or 60 hour work weeks. Who has time to cook? Or shop? There aren't many places where one can walk to the stores either.
Plus, and this I think is a big factor, nutritious food is far more expensive than fast food now. You can feed a family Taco Bell for dinner for less than it takes to buy the ingredients for a cooked meal. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
That is a major factor. We often refer to Whole Foods, the major American supermarket that sells healthy, organic food & fresh produce, "Whole Paycheck," because it really is not cheap.
I work near a very poor inner city community and I have never even seen a grocery store there that sells produce. But there is a McDonalds or convenience store (selling cigs, liquor, and junk food) on every corner.
Also, Americans tend to have a very sedentary lifestyle: they drive everywhere, sit at a desk or stand behind a counter all day, sit on the couch in front of the Tv when they get home... Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
The 40th anniversary of the Watts riots just passed, and next to police brutality, the grocery store is the most talked-about factor. The LA Times interviewed some people who were there at the time, and this one person was saying the food in that store was so rotten that no one even looted it -- they just burned that sucker down. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
There is a briefing page on them here: soil association
Where we live, we do get milk delivered from a local farm that doesn't use hormones or anything, and it's the same cost as from the store, but I was amazed to come across such a thing. They certainly didn't have that where I grew up in Los Angeles!
Also what I've heard is good here, is we have local farmer's markets on the weekends. That's on my to-do list. I'd like to get fresh food and support the local growers. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
It is possible to eat cheaply, but the problem is that no-one is taught how to any more. If kids are brought up on fast food - how are they going to know how to cook cheap cuts of meat, or make a big vegetable stew that will last days?
This, along with many of societies ills, I blame on the loss of community. There have always been ill/inadequate/negligent parents, but in a true community others would ensure that the weakest were held up and carried along. I am not talking of a nostalgic utopia - but just of a time when neighbours were concerned if a child wasn't getting fed properly and when school dinners had no choice but came always with two veg and with a talk from the headmaster on table manners.
Another problem is the false theme of 'bigger is better': I have never been to the states, but my mother has a couple of times (to visit old friends) and she was horrified at the size of the servings wherever she went. She grew up with rationing, and couldn't contemplate serving a meal that was too big to be eaten.
Even with the cheapest cuts of meat, real food is more expensive than fast food now. Unless, of course, you're talking about surviving on vats of rice and beans, but otherwise Taco Bell beats vegetable stew here price-wise. It's quite horrifying. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
Here (Seattle area now and LA last I visited) McDonalds is definitely not cheap. Taco Bell, Dairy Queen and sometimes Arby's are the least expensive. Not everything on the menus, but generally if you don't get sodas, you can eat for under $2 per person. Jack-in-the-Box is the most expensive and can cost more than a sit-down meal.
Still, Top Ramen at $0.10 and Kraft Mac & Cheese has those prices beat, but I wasn't counting processed food. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
bit of effort and we can get 4 individual meals for roughly $2 per.....Plus a few cents for electricity (prob less than the gas to go to Taco Hell.
Even easier. 2 lbs of boneless chicken ($5 on sale) One jar chili mix ($3 bucks) dump in crock pot and serve over rice ($.50).
another 4 meals for $2/per and more work washing up than prep. (and something even a lazy bugger like me can do).
Just quick and dirty cooking for folks too tired/busy/lazy to get serious. Things I'd compare to fast food. You really can't compare a well prepared 3 course meal to fast food garbage. You pay more to get more.
It does sound like our food prices are comparable and those are good ideas. And I get your point that it can be done. I still think there's something wrong, though, when, generally, it's cheaper to eat crap than real food. It used to be the opposite. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
Large scale production using mediocre quality materials and min wage labor is just cheap (and easy for the buggers lining up).
Potatoes are expensive to ship out here evidently. (rot fast in the heat too) Yams will grow here but not spuds. (and I couldn't remember what we paid for the bag of spuds, prob guessed high, but usually they are about $1/lb when sold loose). Locally grown tubers are something we haven't figured out yet.
If you really want to eat cheap, head to Hamura's Siamin shop for a huge bowl of noodles/wonton/mystery meat(spam)and a couple of chicken skewers for about $6-7 bucks. Cough up another $1.5 for big slice of Lilikoi pie...
We even have a TV news spot called Cheap Eats where two hugely fat newscasters show you where to chow down for cheap (but on Oahu). No fast food but pretty high calorie stuff usually. We have a terrible obesity problem and high rate of diabetes in these islands. Esp. among the Hawaiian population that seem to love pretty unhealthy eats and have a cultural thing in favor of being obese.
The chicken was actually $7.50. Safeway had a 2/1 sale but no doubt it's a factory farmed bird. If you want local meat here it' usually pork with some grass fed beef (not that great quality either) also available. Mostly, we get container loads of frozen meat from the mainland. But the fish is fresh!
I think you're spot on.
American grocery stores are just stocked with pre-packaged, chemical & sugar filled food. Food that takes little or no time to prepare and lasts in the pantry for a long time so people can buy in bulk and save money. Not a lot of cheap fresh meat, fish, dairy and produce.
We have summer farmers' markets in Chicago. And I live in a neighborhood that has held on to it's European roots and has become a bit of a "foodie" paradise, with a cheese shop, several good butchers and delis, etc. (We also have a local dairy producer, but the guy who runs it is a racist freak with political ambitions so I don't buy his stuff.)But this is really not representative of how America shops.
I took a road trip with some friends to visit some relatives in southern MO (who are clean, polite, and literate, thank you, tusafait...) and we all were sick the entire time. We finally realized that we had not even SEEN any fruits or unfried vegetables the whole time! It was all soda, fast food, fried food, processed food... Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
I think this is an overstatement. Every town--even the small rural places--has a grocery store with plenty of fresh food. Usually with a pretty broad range of exotics that might appeal to Mexicans or Italians or whatever the minority community in the area happens to be.
The Indian people (from India) that I've spoken to here in the mid-West have commented on how nice it is to be able to go into a grocery store and choose between such a wide variety of fresh vegetables and fruits.
It seems to me that the whole problem is one of personal choice, because every town has a grocery store with "good" food in it.
We could do a cross-cultural experiment, and each make a pricing run to our local market. What would be in the test "market basket?"
Apple Grapes Pasta Olive oil Lettuce Spinach Carrot French bread Red wine, Cotes du Rhone maybe Cheeze, somebody suggest a variety. (Not Cheez-Whiz!)
Other suggestions?
But I still bet that a vat of Spaghetti-o's from Sam's Club costs less than your lovely little menu there (which freakishly resembles every shopping list I made during college, meaning you picked out all the cheap food too!)... Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Also, in Los Angeles inner-city areas and perhaps the other major cities, there are indeed areas where it's difficult to obtain fresh food.
On your list, you have named some inexpensive items, but grapes and olive-oil are pricey. Cheese can be. Otherwise, let's see... I can get lettuce for $1.19/head; carrots/0.98/lb; various pasta from $1.40 - $2.50/pkg; french bread normally $1.50-$2.50/loaf, but it goes on sale regularly for 0.98/loaf; cheddar cheese, the least expensive, runs about $2.55/lb.
Apples are cheap here (Seattle area) and we can get sweet corn 5 for $1 in season. I've noticed stuff like broccoli and zuchinni has gone way up. Potatoes aren't too bad. Local salmon is about $8-9/lb and goes on sale sometimes for $5. In LA it was around $11/lb 10 years ago. The very cheapest fish is about $4/lb. For meat, ground beef and chicken are the least -- smart shopping can get it around $2.50/lb on average.
If I buy bulk from Costco, I can get some things for much less, but this isn't an option for many people. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
Friendly cautions: do mind the quantity. I'm sure you know, but in Europe we work with litres for instance. Price comparison per country is a bitch if it comes to that and then we don't even talk about the inner price variance that comes between shops within one country... Or taxes for countries or states, for instance. The stuff of headaches and migraines. This is like science: it looks easy and then, suddenly, it isn't.
Anyway. I would boost the list a little bit more, add some detail for quantity or provenance and post it again, and then go from there. I think it's a funky idea. Make it a diary, if you got the time.
Here the vegetables are reasonable to buy, though organic is also more expensive. The really expensive stuff is meat and cheese. I do not know how expensive they are currently as I stopped eating them, especially meat, a long time ago.
Something is just not right if a Taco Bell diner becomes cheaper than home made food. So it really looks like the system is sick too. So the question is what can be done and my guess is, with the agribusiness, each and everyone will have to start on a individual level as they will not change without pressure, i.e. making less money because people are not buying there stuff anymore.
