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Could you provide some facts and data for your statements: "in the US you pay Federal and State Unemployment tax, but the benefits you get, if you lose your job, especially if you haven't worked yet a long time, are so low and are not paid very long".  Like, how much is paid in, how much is received back?
by wchurchill on Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 at 01:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the US has fifty states in which you can work and pay unemployment tax to, in addition to the Federal Unemployment Taxes.

I give the example for DC. Federal Unemployment Tax are 0.8 percent of your first $ 7,000.00 of your yearly salary. In addition you pay DC Unemployment Tax of 1.6 % of your first $ 9,000.00 of your yearly salary.

here and here some DC Info .

I don't know how regulations are in Germany, but in DC you must have worked for at least a year, must have lost your job without yourself being at fault.
I don't know in detail the eligibility requirements and I think they differ from state to state and it's a bit too much to ask that I research it here.

In DC you can't apply for benefits unless you lose your job without being yourself at fault, it means that if you get fired or if you are forced to accept to resign "deliberately", you have no way to apply for unemployment benefits as in both cases, getting fired with fault or accepting to leave deliberately, which is then also your own fault.At least that's how I understand the rule.

You seem to be eligible for unemployment benefits only, if your employer laid you off, because he is financially unable to continue to pay you a salary.  

I don't know if that is the same in Germany, I doubt it. According to this German site anybody who has at least worked for one year - and payed during that year unemployment taxes - within the last three years. There are no condition which make your eligibility dependent as to why and how you lost your job, it seems.

The amount of the benefits and the length they are paid out depends on how long you had worked and paid unemployment taxes. gives you an overview that states that if you paid unemployment tax for two years in your previous job, you will get unemployment benefits for one year.

When your eligibility for unemployment benefits are exhausted you still can apply for unemployment help, which are benefits lower than unemployment benefits.
I would say this goes a bit too much in detail and would cost me quite some time to come with all the links and information.

The difference to the US seems to be mainly in the eligibility requirements and in the different labor laws concering being employed "at will" in the US without formal work contracts and labor law protections against "firing" someone "at will" from one day to the other.

May be Detlef knows more about the current regulations in Germany and also how long they are paid out. I think they have changed these laws lately.

So, I see a big difference between the requirements an American must fullfil to be eligible for unemployment benefits (and thus most probably also to register as unemployed) vis a vis a German. In the US it is dependent on why and how you lost your job. In Germany it doesn't seem to be the case.

by mimi on Wed Oct 5th, 2005 at 02:41:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to address your very first point here, you state, "the US has fifty states in which you can work and pay unemployment tax to, in addition to the Federal Unemployment Taxes."  However, this creates a misleading impression that these amounts are generally paid by the individual worker.

The Federal Unemployment Tax, at an effective rate of 0.8% (maximum $56 per year) is paid solely by employers, not workers, and is not counted in, nor deducted from, an employee's wages.  With the exception of three states (Pennsylvania being the only one of the three I could find), the state unemployment taxes are also imposed entirely on employers.  And the totals borne by employees are tiny -- for Pennsylvania in 2004 and 2005, the maximum was $7.20 per year, which is pretty close to an insignificant sum; in 2003 it was $1.60; from 1997-2002, it was zero.

Unless one contends that amounts paid by employers on behalf of their workers constitutes a "hidden" income tax on employees (a favorite argument of the extreme right, by the way, in their drive to completely unfetter businesses), unemployment taxes in the U.S. should be seen in the same manner as Workmen's Compensation taxes:  as part of the ordinary cost of running any business with employees.

by The Maven on Wed Oct 5th, 2005 at 07:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're correct, Maven.  I think the confusion comes in because, in my experience, social security is usually listed as a FICA withdrawal and, if you ask employers what it's for, they'll tell you it's the Federal Insurance Contribution Act for social security and unemployment.  I think mimi's central point, however, was that unemployment benefits usually aren't that great and don't last very long.

This whole thing brings me back to the point I made before about Republicans capitalizing on this problem.  I think there are real problems that the American poor and working classes are facing, but it's extremely difficult to discuss these problems with people on the left because of depredations that have been done by the right under the rhetoric of low taxes.  Any discussion about the tax burden on the poor triggers defensiveness (I'm not directing this at you, Maven, you're comment just brought it to mind).


Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 5th, 2005 at 09:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, one could propose a tax on the rich that improves the situation, but the Democrats don't do that because they are beholden to their rich contributors...
by asdf on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 at 08:51:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, I was aware of that. But I didn't mention it, because I think the issue I was commenting to was to find differences between Germany and US eligibility requirements to register as an unemployed and to apply for benefits.

The question was raised that I made general comments about length and amount of the unemployment benefits in Germany to be higher than in the US and I tried to respond in several comments to bring in some data about that.

That the unemployment contributions are made in the US by the employer and are not deducted from the employee's gross salary wasn't something I thought about in this context. Is it important (to the unemployed benefits receiver) who paid the unemployment taxes, when you just want to compare the difference on the amount and length the benefits paid out to an unemployed persons in Germany and the US?

by mimi on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 at 12:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose I was just getting a bit confused by such references as "If you hold a job in the US you pay Federal and State Unemployment tax", which I took to imply that the worker was responsible for the payment on these taxes.

Without spending too much time wandering afield from your basic point regarding differences between German and U.S. benefits and application requirements, I think that it is relevant to some degree "who paid the unemployment taxes".  Very briefly, here's why:

  1. Since unemployment taxes are essentially invisible to the worker, it's practically impossible for that worker to gauge whether any benefits they might be unfortunate enough to have to receive are truly at a proper or sufficient amount.
  2. As the tax burden in the U.S. rests solely with the employer, this has long been a source of resentment among business owners (especially smaller employers) which makes itself an issue at Chamber of Commerce meetings and generally causes those small business owners to ally politically with anti-tax and anti-worker Republicans, who promise to "ease up on regulations that stifle the great engines of job creation in America".
  3. In Germany, the unemployment tax is 6.5% of gross income -- with a fairly high ceiling -- divided equally between the employer and the worker (this is more than half the figure paid in the U.S. for Social Security taxes).
  4. Because the tax burden in Germany is shared between worker and employer, there is less incentive for businesses to attempt to minimize the tax rate through legislation or regulation; any movement in that direction would be instantly obvious to the employees as posing a potential direct harm to their benefits.

Sorry for getting a bit carried away here, but these differences in who pays the tax I think does end up having a lot to do with the nature of the benefits in each of the countries.  In the U.S., it is often the high cost of "hidden" taxes on business that is cited as a reason for layoffs.  Since the workers don't see this, they don't realize that a) they have a major stake in the issue, and b) this may be why their benefits are so low.  In Germany, by comparison, it seems like it would be difficult, if not impossible, for each worker to be keenly aware of these things.  With that knowledge, any discussion of potential changes can become precisely the type of hot-button issue in Germany as changes to the Social Security system would be for the U.S.
by The Maven on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 at 03:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I actually was wondering why SS und Medicare Taxes in the US are paid by the employer and employee, but the unemployment taxes only by the employer. I wouldn't mind to pay my share unemployement taxes as an employee, if the US would adjust the eligibility requirements for the unemployed to apply for them.

You are very right. Thanks for explaining too the differences in the payment modalities in Germany vis a vis the US.

by mimi on Fri Oct 7th, 2005 at 03:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I disagree with your first point. Anybody can go to their state unemployment site and see what they would get if they were to lose their job.

And you find out that the answer is "not enough."

The system is set up so that couples with both partners working are generally ok. If one person loses their job, the other can at least buy groceries even if they have a pretty low income. Most large payments (house and car) can be deferred for several months before things come crashing down. I lived next door to someone who made no mortgage payments for two years--the bank put up with it because their other choice was to foreclose and end up with a house to dispose of.

by asdf on Fri Oct 7th, 2005 at 06:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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