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 but not their own facts."  Daniel Patrick Moynihan

thank you for the welcome Izzie.  Frankly it's always a pleasure to discuss and debate with you.

Without taking the time to analyze this one in detail, there are a litany of examples from the above thread, regarding Mimi's lack of accuracy.  Such as, Mimi says: "On an average the tuition costs per month is well over $ 2,000.00 plus for the cheapest public university."  A number of examples were given in the commentary of schools with lower tuition; 20+ California State Universities have a tuition per their website of $2000 per year, San Jose University per one poster is at $2500 per year, U of Wisconsin per Izzy is $5600 per year.  Needless to say, these are not the cheapest public universities, and her fact is of by a factor of, should we say, 8?

by wchurchill on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 03:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mimi is probably talking about the cheapest prestigious (i.e., research) public universities. Fees in the University of California system are quite steep, but not so at the California State University system and definitely not at  the community colleges. Now, considering that that there are 10 UC campuses, over 30 CalStates and every moderately large town has a community college, who do you think educates the most California undergraduates?

I suspect the same situation is true of most if not all US states.

It is actually rather shameful that the UC will conditionally admit undergraduates that don't meet its minimum English proficiency standards (concerning reading comprehension and essay writing), charge then UC tuition for a whole year while putting them on remedial courses, and throw them out at the end of the year if they fail to pass the infamous "subject A" exam. To cut costs, they have even started to outsource the subject A remedial courses to the University Extension centres and local community colleges, whicle still charging the students UC tuition fees. [The situation I am describing was current as of one year ago, during my last quarter at UC Riverside, the least prestigious of all UC campuses before Merced opened --- it might have changed, maybe for the worst]

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 04:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you, wchurchill!  I admit mimi's statement seemed false on it's face, but she later clarified that she was discussing non-resident tuition (the subject had been foreign students at some point, so I think the context got lost) and she also clearly said "costs" rather than tuition and was including books.  

All in all, with those added in -- non-resident status tuition plus books, her $2000/mo could be accurate for those conditions.  Wildly inaccurate for residents, of course, but not inaccurate for what she was discussing.

That said, I'm still working on that diary -- almost done!  And it's a thing of beauty if I say so -- all stories and emotion, sweeping generalizations and personal anecdote.  There's nary a statistic in sight -- you guys are gonna have a field day in the comments, I swear!  Dueling statistics at dawn, sir!  I will see you in the comments. :-)

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 04:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh, heh, we'll we've beaten mimi's comments to death, so i'm looking forward to your diary.
by wchurchill on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 06:05:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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