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... but it can't be denied that the silence of CIA agents was rather counter productive in the process of determining the intel.

Do you refer to Powell's self-absolving claim of silence from lower-ranking CIA officials, or do you rely on another source for their silence?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat Sep 10th, 2005 at 12:07:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Point well taken. This is from my recollection, as how I've remembered the story. It's been a while, but I thought that particular information came from the 9/11 Commission Report. Various scenarios of cowed CIA officials have found editorials in newspapers, too. That doesn't make it true, perhaps, but I based it on that.

Three truths: your truth, my truth and the truth.

Even so, whether officials kept quiet, or alternatively, they did speak up but were simply by-passed or ignored (e.g. Joseph Wilson), both results from bad policy, put mildly. That's the main drive of my point: the responsibility for such policy lies at the feet of Rumsfeld. Correct me when I'm wrong, but I thought Powell as Secretary of State had very little to no involvement with the CIA. Cards on the table: I suspect he has been at least partly duped by Rumsfeld & co.

by Nomad on Sat Sep 10th, 2005 at 03:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The point is, we well know now that CIA people like Clarke (the heads of WMD and counter-terrrorism research) were absolutely of one mind regarding the BS WMD claims, and they had made their research explicit to the White House. It's very well-known that the White House kicked it back.

Colin Powell lied again last night. He very well knows that it was the White House who kicked back the proper research, not CIA underlings.

Furthermore, Powell not only made a case for WMD, but at the UN he cited a document written by a grad student from Monterey that was a complete pile of horseshit. This was a masters thesis published in a journal run by the NeoCons. The US Sec of State got up in front of the UN and cited a 24 year old dreaming of WMDs who had never been to Iraq.

Not only is Powell a liar, but he was incompetent.

by Upstate NY on Sun Sep 11th, 2005 at 12:48:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not all Rumsfeld's and Cheney's and the OSP's fault. Powell and State was at war with Rumsfeld, but Tenet played his own role of messing up evidence. However, Powell claims he went to CIA and went through the evidence point-by-point, throwing out the bullshit - but what 'remained' was bullshit too. Moreover, the naysayers weren't just in the CIA, but in the DIA and among his own state department analysts too.

The most bizarre thing about Powell's characterisation of what he did at the CIA before presenting the evidence to the UN is that no one asked him why he didn't do that a year earlier: after all, he was Secretary of State, making policy (beating the drums of war internationally) based on the same intel!

This was a political decision, not stupidity or being duped or incompetence. He too was looking for evidence to fit the policy (but evidence sounding convincing enough for the international community), not the truth.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Sep 11th, 2005 at 06:51:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Clearly, you're far better informed about this than I am. It's both insightful and worrying to read about all the powerplay that went ahead of the Iraq Invasion. Thanks for that...

The most bizarre thing about Powell's characterisation of what he did at the CIA before presenting the evidence to the UN is that no one asked him why he didn't do that a year earlier: after all, he was Secretary of State, making policy (beating the drums of war internationally) based on the same intel!

I'm not that surprised at that. If Powell wanted information from the CIA, he had people to get that for him. (Whether they did correctly is another question.) But for a big, deciding speech at the UN, you don't want to rely on underlings and the big boss comes over himself. Makes perfect sense to me. He would have been ridiculed even more if he hadn´t come then.

I won´t pass judgement on the man just yet, though. If the UN speech was purely political and he knew the information was flawed, it damages his integrity. If it was because not all the intel reached him correctly, it undermines his competence. It will always reflect bad on him.

Coming to think of that, no wonder he finds it a blot on his reputation...

by Nomad on Sun Sep 11th, 2005 at 09:29:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But for a big, deciding speech at the UN, you don't want to rely on underlings and the big boss comes over himself.

It wasn't his first big, deciding speech at the UN. There was a certain Resolution 1441.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Sep 11th, 2005 at 02:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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