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The disability numbers are significant in a number of countries to reduce the unemployment statistics, by excluding people from the active (and unemployed) count(s). The impact on the numerator is bigger than on the denominator, thus a lower unemployment rate.

The Netherlands and the UK come to mind.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 10:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that you mention it, I recall from my past unemployment that you could be disabled and still unemployed in France (you were asked if you had a disability, I guess this was to help measure the amount of compensation you should receive).
by Alex in Toulouse on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 11:00:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you know, there's a law in France that requires employers to take on people who are disabled but can work (either that or pay a penalty). The ANPE would need to know in order to direct you to the right kind of job/employer.

What Jérôme was referring to was the inscription on sick/disabled and unable to work lists. These lists are much longer in some countries than in others. In a diary I wrote last October, I linked to OECD stats on this, with a graph.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:07:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great diary afew. I wasn't on ET at the time so thanks for adding the link here. This disability categorization discrepancy is a fascinating issue I wasn't aware of in the EU context.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks, Alexandra. The difficulty, as you say below, is in knowing, for each country, how sickness/incapacity is defined, and how applied in practice. You need a medical decision of some kind, obviously (Metatone, can you shine a light on UK practice on Incapacity Benefit?)

Numbers on Incapacity Benefit in the UK grew substantially with the arrival of New Labour in power, mostly, I suspect, as a result of the back-to-work policy that put pressure on the unemployed. The majority of people on IB are in former industrial areas where jobs are harder to come by than in S-E England. I suspect a number of long-term unemployed got themselves signed on sick so as to go on receiving benefit while not being pressured to get a job. The government is officially "working" on this now.

My feeling after spending some time looking into employment stats is that (despite ILO standards) there are so many special cases and national quirks that comparisons are hard to establish. The annoying thing is that this doesn't prevent politicians and the media from using more or less massaged numbers for propaganda purposes -- the unemployment figure being next in CW godhead to annual GDP growth...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I still think international comparisons are interesting they just have to include some of the complexity that doesn't make for politically useful sound bites and there has to be some minimum of standardization in what data is collected.

It's in the nitty gritty details (such as definitions) and the context that I find labor statitistics interesting. One of the reasons I like approaches such as the pyramid is that they make it harder to hide the national quirks. With the raw census data one could imagine building a pyramid for France & for the UK, which would have even more detail then the one in my diary. You could distinguish fulltime & part-time work (maybe even include information on voluntary part-time) and include more detail on the types of other not in the labor force groups such as the disabled. If done using the right graph size, or it's corresponding table, it would reveal the large UK disability group.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I think you're absolutely right about graphs. The important thing is the will to make the most accurate, revealing graphs possible. Not "soundbite" graphs.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You basically have the right of it, but it's important to note that this was done with government complicity to some degree.

I'll comment more if I have more chance.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew you just made my day!

Your diary is the kind of thing that I need to feel confident that Sarkozy's pledge to follow Blair is nothing more than idiotic. Our alleged dysfunctionally social country might even be doing better than the most economically liberal countr(ies) in Europe ... amazing!!

Vive la Commune et Vive le Socialisme !!!

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I should make your day more often so we can sing Le temps des cerises together!

Vive la Commune!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very interesting Jerome. It seems to me it's all in how you define disabled. It makes perfect sense to me that if you have a disability and are able to work you would be counted in the labor force (employed or unemployed). However, if you are unable to work then whether temporarily of permanently then it seem to make sense that you would not be included in the labor force numbers. Do you have an idea of how disability is defined in the cases you mention?
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 11:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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