I want to put more emphasis on the idea of Fran. If Scoop changes and allows for a redistribution of the diaries, a subdivision of diaries according to languages will be indeed possible. People will write in whatever language they can master and try to make the translation if they can. So we will ahve a lot of communitites but also the big one as always.
Important entries could be translated to other languages if there is ever enough people and money.
So until new scoop comes then the only thing to decide is what we do with diaries not written in english. Ban it? Simply encourage heavily not writing them or just being neutral and then observe what happens...Or encourage it? I always think in this cases that there's someone who is in charge .. he is the one who should decide.
On a personal note, i did not find myself excud for the diary in French.. I did not get anything they were talking.. I took it as funny.. if there is more diaries in french r other any other language I can not undestand I will just forget about that diary.
A pleasure I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
The good thing about english is that we all feel included. The bad side is that you are not gonna reach ost of the people you will like
Yep, that's exactly the dilemma. You're probably right that the number of new users we might reach (who need to be at least bilingual, as you say and as I say above), is perhaps limited. Yet these are people we do want to reach.
And thanks for not feeling excluded by my French. But why should you be? You write great French (or whatever it was). I understood it, anyway, I think. (les raons que dius??)
Me too. I looked at it a couple of times, and there was no english in it at that time. My (many years ago) schoolgirl french enabled me to pick up some words, and make guesses at meaning, but certainly not enough to join in. For me, one of the reasons I didn't feel able to ask for translation was a sense of embarrassment at my lack of proficiency in other languages.
Those of us who can should make the effort of the translation to post in both languages... and this is the only weak point I see from a new SCOOP... we will have the time and will?
The question of what happens meanwhile remains. what happens if all diaries or most are written in a language that we/I/most of us do not understand...and should we try to attract people with a very basic english by doing foreign language diaries.
I must say I do not have an answer at all. NO idea. Please afew.. I am waiting for your solution.. you know anybody can change my mine very easily sometimes.
And catalan is almost my natural language in writing...it is very easy if you are in an english keyboard without "accent" for the vowels. So I can write catalan any time you want...spoken is even nicer
Spoken Catalan is harder for me to understand... And even written is quite hard, since I'm coming at from a partial acquaintance with Occitan and have to make adjustments, though they're fairly similar. (Maybe not Barcelona slang, though...)
Please do reply to Migeru's question about Catalan/Castilian etiquette.
There are four kind of people.
First, those that will speak spanish no matter what and no matter who they are talking with because they do not speak catalan (or don't like it)
Second, those that speak mainly spanish and can talk and write in catalan but their family and social life is basically in spanish (most of the population in catalonia). They will always speak spanish if faced with a catalan...Roughly at the ratio of 5 catalan speakers to 1 spanish they will try to change and speak catalan. A fifty fifty meeting wil be generally in spanish..unles someone of the third group is present.
Third Those that want to speak catalan all the time. They will try to speak as long as the other one understand catalan, no matter what the other language is. If the other person can not understand they will speak spanish.
Four group. Family bilingual (father and mother used different languages), they switch inmediately and by default to the language of the people they are talking to. So you can have multiple converstaion at the same time with different people.
According to a report on science (or nature?) we are the "perfect" bilingual and we are investigated as subject around Europe when some test on the brain activity of something related with language is tested.
Typically conversations can be performed different languages at the same time.
That said, the most interesting cases are given when a meeting consists on people of class 2, class 3 , class 4 and intermediate class 1-2... The etiquette there is too much complex.. I will need a couple of diaries...
1+3 is each one its own language 1+2 spanish 1+4 spanish 3+4 catalan 2+3 depends on the ratio only catalan or spansih-catalan or mainly spanish with some catalan 2+3+4 Multiple language conversation with some strong clsuter of catalan (could be in spanish if 3 is in minority)
1-2+2+3+4 Typic chaotic system in itself where any external influence can have an strong effect (even the neighboorhood you are speaking at the moment can have an influence.. for example it is not the same having the meeting in Clot neighboorhod than in a small town.. even if the people are the same).
Let's face, most spaniards culdn't give a damn of any other language than spanish..only maybe in Madrid, because of the corportations you may find some people interested in it (also in Barcelona).. it really amazes me.. given that we are coutnry for tourists....and yet, outside of the hotel nobody can speak any language other than spanish...
Ei.. this is who we are...Well... que le voy a hacer (what can I do)
Well, my experience, having never travelled to Spain (which I very much regret) is quite the opposite and there is even a funny story attached to it.
I studied as a non-native English speaker in Glasgow. I shared a flat with a Spanish guy and because of that, went to quite a number of Spanish parties. Now those taking part and there were plenty would all be easily able to join in our conversation here, especially since a lot of them were electrical engineers in renewables technology.
So, my admittedly rather limited experience, I only met maybe 100 spanish people in my lifeis quite different from yours, since their english was at least as good as mine.
So, don't talk your fellow country men down (-:
And now the funny story.
I always admire the English for coping (more or less) with having their language abused by the great-unwashed none-mother-toungies (gunMT's). This became really clear to me once, while working in a peace camp. I came into a room where a spanish guy and a bosnian woman were talking. It sounded vaguely familiar, but I could not make out what they were talking about, till they told me, they were speaking MY mother tounge, since that was the only language they had in common. Hehe.
Corsica on the other hand has the particularity of being isolated, insular, and, well, not always welcoming (this depends on where in Corsica of course). Bomb attacks on people with a distinctly foreign origin (particularly Arabs) occur in Corsica once in a while.
From Spain. I should have said. From Spain
Particularly since some of those fellas were speaking catalan as well,
doh
Kcurie knows I'm just snarking, but you just can't get away from it no matter how hard you try... And the thing is boiling over in Madrid and Barcelona as we speak... unlike Muenchen and Berlin. guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
Then, there is some other people who had the ability to say some sentences.. most of the young people can say these sentences but no more....
As I say..I am neither catalan nor spanish I am from Barcelona , best city in the world.
sigh, do they still look like this?
he dodo, when are you writing something about funicular's?
Talking about funiculars... Have you ridden the one at Petřin in Prague? guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
So I really encourage you...to come.. If you like science... go tho the science museum.. Other uesum are the best romanic in the world at the MNAC.. and of course Miro museum..
Contemporary art and Picasso are also fine...
And this is only regarding museums....
Waiting for you.
The best building in the world is in Barcelona.. a gaudi's one (according to my taste is not the most famous) actually probably three out of the five best building (where people can live) are in Barcelona...
If you want dead monument.. Egypt is robably the best or Jordan or even Greece and Rome.. if you want gorgeous and amzing buildings where people can live...Barcelona...
If you go this year I guess I will be there just one weekend..but after summer.. I will probably be there...
Late night is great..absolutely great.. given that there is a lot of different kinds of night depending on the part of the city... There are some specific types of going out that are better in other parts of Spain (tapas nights better in Andalucia) or even Germany (rave parties probably better in Germany). Other than that...probably London , Istambul and Berlin are on the top five with Barcelona...
I think you could classify people into two groups by whether they find the Passion or the Nativity facade more aesthetically pleasing. guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
I personally do not find any of the facades pleasant....You like one or the other or neither.. Very diffciult to like both.. indeed.
You know my tastes.. amazing...
Yes.. casa batllo.. my screensaver if I ever put one...
Best building in the world by far .. million of years... ahead..
But but but, Toulouse clearly wins in the student & bar life department: 120,000 students for a city of 420,000 (total metropolitan area: 1 million), while all of Catalonia has less than 140 000 students (and Barcelona city is 1,5 million people, and a total metropolitan area of 4.6 million)
=> In Barcelona, the alleged coolest student town in the world, students are diluted into the overall mass bouuuu houuuu whistle bouuu the crowd goes wild
Viva Tolosa!!
(it's time to fight people, it's time to fight!!)
240 comments and counting...
(heh, try to say that fast 3 times: ancient regional rivalries...) "Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
Nevertheless on disco-bar style night full of strudents and all kind of people and with different party styles.. I would say Barceloan beats them both....In number, diversity and ratio... there hardly any place with more disco and dico-bars than Barcelona in the Mediterraneum.....Maybe istambul they say...
Let's start the fight.....!!!!
