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There is also the hidden issue (always) -- the energy and emissions cost of producing the vehicle itself.  iirc the average US car has already been responsible for 30 percent of its lifetime's emissions burden (greenhouse gases etc) before it leaves the showroom floor.  The notion that we will fix all our problems by replacing the entire national vehicle fleet with clever hybrids seems to me fairly risible;  on the timescale necessary to do something effective about carbon emissions and climate destab, it would mean a car manufacturing spike (in emissions and energy/fuel consumption) that would kind of defeat the purpose.  Manufacturing the traction engines only and repowering existing (suitable candidate) vehicles would be more practical... but alas a huge chunk of the US fleet consists of carcasses so grotesquely large, anti-aerodynamic, and heavy that they are not, in fact, suitable candidates.

IMHO the new technologies for autos are desirable and practical only in concert with a serious transport mode change, i.e. car sharing, public transport, rail and bus expansion, curtailment of air transport, etc.   By themselves, cute new ICE technologies are merely bandaids on a gangrenous amputation -- or less colourfully, consoling toys for affluent people enabling us to kid ourselves that we are Doing Something About the Problem.  [Titanic, deck chairs, and so on.]  My $0.02...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Jan 31st, 2006 at 08:43:06 PM EST
It seems to me that this sort of development is just what you would expect as a result of changes in the cost of transportation. At any given price point for oil, some mix of transportation systems will make the most sense. The diesel hybrid approach makes sense at some higher price point, and "everybody walks" at some even higher point.

If some kind of plug-in-diesel-hybrid makes sense in 2010, then that's what we will have. I think the two principal problems are:

  • Whether the transportation system can evolve quickly enough to follow the change in oil price, particularly if an additional tax is imposed to account for climate change effects.
  • How the balance between the rich and poor will be handled.
by asdf on Wed Feb 1st, 2006 at 12:26:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a problem with plug-in-diesel, and that is that the fuel efficiency gains (and emission reductions) are offset by the need to charge the batteries from the power grid, and this additional energy cost and pollution are not taken into account.

However, these Peugeot models seem not to be plug-in models? They are claimed to be able to start on an empty battery and (did I get this right?) charge the battery mainly from braking?

In any case, this is all window dressing as DeAnander points out.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2006 at 05:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually the mass production of energy, even using undesirable fuels like coal, is pretty efficient and the pollution is pretty low. Also one can hope for eventual improvements in this area, for example wind power.

An open question is how you should measure the efficiency of various technologies. What is the MPG of a plug-in hybrid? What do you do about the different energy densities of diesel oil and gasoline? Perhaps cars should be measured in energy units rather than miles per gallon (or km per l or whatever).

by asdf on Wed Feb 1st, 2006 at 08:04:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The model on display is not a plug in. But diesel hybrids are still a progress (provided that the technology gets somewhat cheaper) and plug in hybrids would be yet another progress. Plug ins can be powered by renewable electricity.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2006 at 02:35:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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