Display:
Which simply means that prices WILL have to go up much higher to force the inevitable changes on us.
Well, yeah.  Economics 101.

Continuing with lessons from Economics 101: 1) the oil industry will find new sources of supply, (already happening); 2) other investors will see the inevitability long term of higher oil prices, and invest in alternative fuels, (already happening);  3) unforseen scientific breakthroughs that cause paradigm shifts can often happen when a need is so clearly seen (thus the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention")--it's happened many times before; and 4) consumers of a good or service that is increasing in price will change their behavior, note just one example of which there are hundreds more over the world.  In other words, they will use less oil, use it in a different way, and this will partially offset the increasing demands for oil from growing economies.  

(I've commented before on the uniqueness of energy and global oil due to the political dimensions--tendency of world dictators to own the oil, and won't go through that again here).

It is useful to identify and discuss obvious trends, and there are a number around energy.  Oil prices are going up over time is one.  Another is that more nuclear reactors will be built because it is a proven source of energy, and thus the price of Uranium will go up, at least over the course of the next 10 years (and last 5).  

But what are the impacts of these trends, and when will they occur?  Clearly the forecasted $100/barrel on 12/31/05, didn't occur.  It looks unlikely that for the second year running the$100/barrel will not occur on 12/31/06.  Actually in both years not even be close.  

Countdown to $100 oil (27) - 'Mission Accomplished' - High oil prices are here to stay
Someone else got into trouble with that mission accomplished thing, if I recall correctly.  From that diary:
Before I take off to my much needed holidays, let me chart once more why many anlysts don't see oil prices go down in the foreseeable future - and why I personally believe they'll go up significantly.

And of course, go read ManfromMiddletown's diary on the same topic, with an excellent summary of how the Mexican election might have a major impact on oil prices: Jerome may get his $100 barrel... from Mexico

NOT

Is it enough to comment on the obvious that oil prices over time will go up?  Or does this countdown to $100 oil lose credibility due to forecasts being repeatedly so far off?  

by wchurchill on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 01:44:42 PM EST

1) the oil industry will find new sources of supply, (already happening);

No it isn't happening. Or not in the necessary volumes anyway.


 2) other investors will see the inevitability long term of higher oil prices, and invest in alternative fuels, (already happening);

What do you have in mind? Biofuels? They are creating more problems than they are solving and are just riding a big fat wave of subsidies.


3) unforseen scientific breakthroughs that cause paradigm shifts can often happen when a need is so clearly seen (thus the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention")--it's happened many times before;

True, but you cannot reliably rely on that


and 4) consumers of a good or service that is increasing in price will change their behavior, note just one example of which there are hundreds more over the world.

And yet demand is still growing in the USA, and barely stabilising in Europe...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 02:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
2) other investors will see the inevitability long term of higher oil prices, and invest in alternative fuels, (already happening);

What do you have in mind? Biofuels? They are creating more problems than they are solving and are just riding a big fat wave of subsidies.

According to Technopolitical
BTW, total world bio-power (measured by net primary production through photosynthesis) is only 75 TW -- less than 6 times what people now consume. Biofuel advocates, beware.


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 03:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
coal, Canada's tar sands, diesel fuel--hybrid cars,,,etc.  I meant alternative fuels and more efficient ways of using oil.  hydrogen.  maybe biofuels, given the Brazilian experience,,,,but what I've read doesn't give much hope for this in the US and Europe.

but really it's the combination of the four above that will solve this over time.

by wchurchill on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 04:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
or from the CNN article
But perhaps the most exciting thing about oil in the $55 to $65 range is that it opens up a whole slew of investment alternatives - from tar sands to wind power to fuel cell cars - that weren't feasible when fossil fuels were cheap.
by wchurchill on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 04:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...hydrogen...

Which is abundant in its elemental form and can readily be dug out of the ground.  Oh, no, wait... it can't.

by ustenzel on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 06:46:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by wchurchill on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 07:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
h2 isn't a new source of energy.  merely a different way to store energy from some other source.  It might solve a storage and distribution problem, but that's about it.  I think we'll go to all battery vehicles before h2.  90%+ of daily personal transport needs fit within the 250 mile range of EVs.

Our best source of new energy is to cut consumption via technology.  there is essentially nothing but stubborness preventing the USA from getting fleet mileage up to 40 MPG from current 20ish.  Doing that alone knocks about 5 MMBD gasoline demand out.

by HiD on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 04:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
coal - presumably coal-to-liquids?
using coal to produce fuel will have massive environmental impact (count 100 Mt to get 1mb/d, plus absolutely staggering volumes of water) so this is unlikely to be more than a small niche/

tar sands
Similar issues. See the link in my diary.

diesel fuel-hybridµ
Now that's a real solution. But that's on the demand side, not the supply side.

*biofuels
Not sustainable, and not physically doable on a large scale. Again, it will be a niche for the smart money following subsidies, but it will create knowck on effects in other ag. commodity markets very quickly.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 05:29:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I dont' think the environmental impacts of coal liquefaction will hamper its development in the US. There was crash program for mass liquefaction under Carter, it was cancelled because prices went down in the 80's and it was not feasible to increase coal production so fast. But it will come back, pushed by the OilCos (they own a good share of US coal mines since that time), the US DoD, and also "who cares about greenhouse gas ? China is dumping 10 times as much as us !"

Just like Europeans will liquefy russian gas to replace diesel... Something to watch: I once read that modern variants of FT process, require huge amounts of cobalt for catalysts, and already-planned gas liquefaction facilities around the world would account for 5% of cobalt production for about 10 years. So if it ramps up, we should see another commodity under pressure.

Pierre

by Pierre on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 09:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't comment on my own credibility, but there is nothing obvious about oil prices going up overthe long run. The CNN article I quote states that oil prices will stabilise at current levels.

The point with the Countdown is that any unexpected event can trigger big price increases, and have indeed in previous occasions, in the context of an upwards trend (see graph above).

None of the crises predicted for this year have taken place yet, so the brutal spike that would accompany them is yet to be  seen, but the upwards trend is still with us.

So you may find the whole exercise silly, but we'll see.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 03:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the CNN article is talking in the short to near term.
The bad news (or good, depending on your point of view) is it looks as though today's prices are here to stay, possibly through much of next year.
and
But don't expect $100 a barrel
But that doesn't mean prices are going to spike again soon.

The biggest reason not is that stockpiles are near record levels and fall is what experts call the "shoulder months" - the time between strong summer demand from driving and air conditioning and winter's heating needs. Basically, there's not much to move the market.

Come 2007, investments that have been made in production, thanks to the recent high prices, could start to come online and boost supply.

I think you have to talk about energy prices over decades, due to the development times for new innovation, and the development times for new sources, like oil fields.  But I imagine that you are right that oil will hit $100 in the long term, say by 2020--2030, and I would think most would agree.
by wchurchill on Sun Oct 1st, 2006 at 04:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I tend to agree, but it will happen long before 2020 just on the Chinese/Indian growth curve vs production growth curve.  $100 isn't really all that expensive.  Most Europeans are paying gasoline prices well above what $100 crude implies for the US(about $2.75/gallon mogas at the wholesale level or $3.50-75ish retail on US wide average)  

or 15 minutes after an al Qaeda attack on Ras Tanura.

whichever comes first.

by HiD on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 04:55:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series