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Just for the record:

  • You lied.  For illustrative purposes, a household is assumed to consume about one kilowatt (in reality it's a bit more).  The wind farm can only power 120.000 households if it runs at 100% availability, which it doesn't.

  • Coal power emits around 1kg of CO2 per kWh produced, a realistic mix around 0.5kg/kWh.  Your figure of savings therefore amounts to about 110GWh per year or an availability around 40%, which seems about right, though optimistic.

  • 3€/W peak power is comparable to and a bit higher than the cost of the new EPR at Olkiluoto, but the latter will produce more than twice as much electricity for the same rated peak power.  Never again call nuclear power expensive.
by ustenzel on Sat Oct 28th, 2006 at 08:00:20 AM EST
  • I did not "lie". I quoted a press release. If you want to discuss assumptions, say so, or ask. Don't say I lie. For the record, we consume kWh, not kW.

  • availability of 40% is the standard for offshore wind

  • when have I ever said that nuclear was expensive? You're picking on the wrong person.


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 02:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For the record, we consume roughly the same amount of kWh every month (or whatever other time interval), so that gives kW again, and roughly one kW per household.  

By that number, the conventionally used one, you overestimate the output of this wind farm by a factor of at least 2.5.  (Why at least?  Because these 40% have yet to be measured.  My physics textbook lists 40% as upper limit.)  

And it's simply getting to me that the output of wind farms is habitually overestimated by a large margin, the cost underestimated by a large margin if not several orders of magnitude, wrong conclusions are drawn from that and taxpayers (that would be ME) are made to pay for that nonsense!

by ustenzel on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 05:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I responded on the substance of your question here: http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/10/30/231713/57#32

I don't understand your confrontational tone because I don't see what you're trying to achieve here. I've mostly on the pro-nuclear side of the debate here, and I've discussed the cost of nuclear various times, and i don't see how you could imply in any way that I've been peddling lies, and to be frank, I deeply resent that word. If you think a number is wrong, call me on it, give your arguments, and let's discuss it. If it's wrong, it's wrong. I can make mistakes.

And just so you know, I'm making a real effort at remaining polite here because your attitude is frankly unacceptable.

btw, the 40% number has nothing to do with physics, and everything to do with the weather, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Nuclear energy in France - a Sunday special

The real cost of electricity - some numbers (well, lots of them)
(I suggest you go see the externality costs table in that diary if you want to complain about taxes)

Alternative energies: wind power
wind power: debunking the critics

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 06:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
120MW at 40% availability = 48MW on average = 48.000 households.

Not 120.000.  That's what's wrong.

by ustenzel on Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 at 06:12:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the EU, an average household consumes around 3500 kWh per year. That's significantly below 1 kW average power, the latter more corresponds to the USA (and perhabs Scandinavian countries).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 at 06:53:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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