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Are you perhaps confused by the abortion issue? I'll grant you that there are some Irish-Catholics who have voted Republican based on that issue...

Like I said, I'm surrounded by such people, the existence of which, in today's America, is essentially a QED to my argument.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 06:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, then you should have said that, instead of maligning a whole ethnic group for being "right-wing." I'm as pro-choice as anybody could be, but I know from my own family that it's possible to be anti-choice and still be a decent human being (which, by definition, right-wing people are NOT).
by Matt in NYC on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 08:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think here is the error. It is indeed possible to be a decent human being and conservative. Most of America is conservative, but folks are all the same by and large decent.

The unfortunate flipside of this philosophy you seem to espouse is that all it takes is to be a decent human being to be at heart a progressive. This is a common American attitude, as common as it is wrong. And a recent diary Jerome did over on kos, and in particular the virulent reaction of many kossacks to him, on charity, demonstrates the power of this misguided notion in America, and underlines its limitations.

Georg Lukács ought to be required curriculum in America.  

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 09:26:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see.  "It's true in my neighborhood, so it must be true of the whole country."  You dazzle me with your analytical prowess.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 04:03:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, consider that I was responding to someone saying "it's true in my family, so it must be true in the whole country".

What does this say about your "analytical prowess" yardstick and the consitency thereof?

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, I never said anything about my family.  Try picking apart my arguments when you're talking to me, not somebody else's.  Focus.  You can do it.

Fine, I apologize for being snarky to you in the comment above.  I should have found a way to point out the myriad flaws in your reasoning without actually making fun of you.

I would like you to consider the possibility that the reaction that your comments are getting from a variety of people should indicate that perhaps your rhetoric is a tad... inflammatory.  And offensive.  Your points, whatever they might be, are lost.  Your arguments would be better served by actually making arguments, rather than sweeping statements that are unsupported by any facts you have provided thus far.

But it's clear to me that your mind is made up, and your bias is clear.  Sad, but very clear.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:34:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I was refering to MattinNYC. Matt was the one invoking the family, and how if his Irish-American extended family was all nice and decent, even the GOP voting abortion-opponent ones, then all must be good and righteous. Same thread, same subthread.

His logic appears unobjectionable to you, mine less so.

Why is that?

 

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:41:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, cut it both of you.

You are obviously as far removed from the topic of this diary as it gets.

Somehow "who said what" is not very relevant to the possibilities of an outbreak of endemic nationalism in Europe. Or so it looks to me.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:53:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in part at least because Matt wasn't casting aspersions on tens of millions of people, so his argument is of less concern to me.  (Remember, you said "right-wing," not conservative, which is much stronger language.)

Your logic has been flawed since your first comment, and you've offended a number of people.

But if if it makes you feel less like a victim of some massive Irish-American plot to destroy you, I'll say this:  Nobody in this thread has cited adequate evidence to prove that the "average" Irish-American is either conservative or liberal.  

Now honestly, I don't have time to chase around shadows any more tonight.  If you have some problem with hyphenated-Americans in general, which is what I see you're now claiming, then write a diary about it and let's stop cluttering up this one with irrelevant arguments about who's the worst racist.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:57:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But it's clear to me that your mind is made up, and your bias is clear.  Sad, but very clear.

Please cut your accusation of racism and bigotry crap. I cast no aspersions on the Irish whatsoever, if I cast them, it is on Americans. Irish-Americans are perfectly assimilated; if anything, what I'm saying is there's no difference from so-called Irish-Americans and plain old Americans. You think that is racism?

Want to call me anti-American, fine, there it is, I cop to the charge. That's not racism, that's just a recognition of what America has become in today's world.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if anything, what I'm saying is there's no difference from so-called Irish-Americans and plain old Americans.

That's a rather interesting re-interpretation of what you said. To me, bias seemed obvious across multiple comments of yours, and I am neither Irish nor American, so you should at least consider to communicate your ideas differently, as stormy present suggested.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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