Bill O'Reilly: is a moron and a bully, and I don't think either of those things have anything to do with his ethnicity.
Hannity: from what I hear, has recently become critical of the Bush Administration. Perhaps you could argue that this parallels the swing voter mentality and that the Catholics are swing voters (Reagan Democrats.) In my family the Catholics are Italian. And they are neo-cons. Huh.
Pat Buchanan: is a Nazi. Hey, let's talk about people with German last names. Hey! I have a German last name! Guess my voting record!
...
In America, most people are of mixed ethnicity. And for the most part, people are not judged on their last name. And no ethnicity is monolithic, though those most often associated with a political party (Jews, African Americans, ...Irish) are associated with the Democratic Party. 34 million Americans claim Irish heritage. To try to make a generalization about them is silly.
Interestingly enough, the places where Irish pride is most vocal are places like Chicago, Boston, and New York, which will be "right-wing" oh, about a year after hell freezes over.
Here are some fun facts, care of wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American
Irish in politics and government The Catholic Irish moved rapidly into law enforcement, and (through the Catholic Church) built hundreds of schools, colleges, orphanages, hospitals, and asylums. Political opposition to the Catholic Irish climaxed in 1854 in the short-lived Know Nothing Party. By the 1850s, the Irish Catholics were a major presence in the police departments of large cities. In New York City in 1855, of the city's 1,149 policemen, 305 were natives of Ireland. The creation of a unified police force in Philadelphia opened the door for the Irish in that city. By 1860 in Chicago, 49 of the 107 on the police force were Irish. Chief O'Leary headed the police force in New Orleans and Malachi Fallon was chief of police of San Francisco.[14] The Irish had a reputation of being very well organized, and, since 1850, have produced a majority of the leaders of the Catholic Church in the U.S., labor unions, the Democratic Party in larger cities, and Catholic high schools, colleges and universities. Politically, the Irish Catholic typically voted 80-95% Democratic in elections down to 1964. John F. Kennedy was their greatest political hero. Al Smith, who lost to Herbert Hoover in the 1928 presidential election, was the first Irish Catholic to run for president. From the 1830s to the 1960s, Irish Catholics voted 80-95% Democratic, with occasional exceptions like the election of 1920. Today, most Irish Catholic politicians are associated with the Democratic Party, although some have become Republican leaders, such as former GOP national chairman Ed Gillespie, House Homeland Security Chairman Peter T. King and retiring Congressman Henry Hyde. Ronald Reagan boasted of his Irishness. (The son of an Irish Catholic father, he was raised as a Protestant.) Historically, Irish Catholics controlled many city machines and often served as chairmen of the Democratic National Committee, including County Monaghan native Thomas Taggart, Vance McCormick, James Farley, Edward J. Flynn, Robert E. Hannegan, J. Howard McGrath, William H. Boyle, Jr., John Moran Bailey, Larry O'Brien, Christopher J. Dodd, and Terry McAuliffe. The majority of Irish Catholics in Congress are Democrats; currently Susan Collins of Maine is the only Irish Catholic Republican senator. Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.[15] The pro-life silent majority in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006. [16] Many major cities have elected Irish American Catholic mayors. Indeed, Boston, Cincinnati, Houston, Newark, New York City, Omaha, Scranton, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Saint Paul, and San Francisco have all elected natives of Ireland as mayor. Chicago, Boston, and Jersey City have had more Irish American mayors than any other ethnic group. The cities of Chicago, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Oakland, Omaha, St. Paul, Jersey City, Rochester, Springfield, Rockford, Scranton, and Syracuse currently (as of 2006) have Irish American mayors. All of these mayors are Democrats. Pittsburgh mayor Bob O'Connor died in office in 2006. New York City has had at least three Irish-born mayors and over eight Irish-American mayors. The most recent one was County Mayo native William O'Dwyer, elected in 1949. The Irish Protestant vote has not been studied nearly as much. Since the 1840s, it has been uncommon for a Protestant politician to be identified as Irish. In Canada, by contrast, Irish Protestants remained a cohesive political force well into the 20th century with many (but not all) belonging to the Orange Order. Throughout the 19th century, sectarian confrontation was commonplace between Protestant Irish and Catholic Irish in Canadian cities. [edit] Presidents of Irish Descent The following are the 16 Presidents of the Republic who have definite Irish ancestral origins. The extent of which varies from, for example, George W. Bush having a rather distant Irish ancestry, to the examples of Presidents Kennedy and Reagan, whose Irish origins fall much closer in terms of date. It is of particular sociological and historical note that whereas only "8 out of 28 Presidents from the institution of the office in 1789 until 1921 possessed elements of Irish ancestry, since Kennedy took office in 1961 every President bar one, Gerald Ford, has had Irish blood". Only one, however, namely John F. Kennedy, can be considered both Irish-American and Catholic. St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York.Andrew Jackson, 7th President 1829-37 James Knox Polk, 11th President 1845-49 James Buchanan, 15th President 1857-61 Ulysses S Grant, 18th President 1869-77 Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President 1881-85 Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President 1885-89, 1893-97 William McKinley, 25th President 1897-1901 Woodrow Wilson, 28th President 1913-21 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 35th President 1961-63 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President 1963-69 Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th President 1969-74 James Earl Carter, 39th President 1977-81 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President 1981-89 George H.W. Bush, 41th President 1989-1993 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President 1993-2001 George W. Bush, 43rd President 2001-present Also, Jefferson Davis, 1st, President of the Confederate States of America
By the 1850s, the Irish Catholics were a major presence in the police departments of large cities. In New York City in 1855, of the city's 1,149 policemen, 305 were natives of Ireland. The creation of a unified police force in Philadelphia opened the door for the Irish in that city. By 1860 in Chicago, 49 of the 107 on the police force were Irish. Chief O'Leary headed the police force in New Orleans and Malachi Fallon was chief of police of San Francisco.[14]
The Irish had a reputation of being very well organized, and, since 1850, have produced a majority of the leaders of the Catholic Church in the U.S., labor unions, the Democratic Party in larger cities, and Catholic high schools, colleges and universities. Politically, the Irish Catholic typically voted 80-95% Democratic in elections down to 1964. John F. Kennedy was their greatest political hero. Al Smith, who lost to Herbert Hoover in the 1928 presidential election, was the first Irish Catholic to run for president. From the 1830s to the 1960s, Irish Catholics voted 80-95% Democratic, with occasional exceptions like the election of 1920.
Today, most Irish Catholic politicians are associated with the Democratic Party, although some have become Republican leaders, such as former GOP national chairman Ed Gillespie, House Homeland Security Chairman Peter T. King and retiring Congressman Henry Hyde. Ronald Reagan boasted of his Irishness. (The son of an Irish Catholic father, he was raised as a Protestant.) Historically, Irish Catholics controlled many city machines and often served as chairmen of the Democratic National Committee, including County Monaghan native Thomas Taggart, Vance McCormick, James Farley, Edward J. Flynn, Robert E. Hannegan, J. Howard McGrath, William H. Boyle, Jr., John Moran Bailey, Larry O'Brien, Christopher J. Dodd, and Terry McAuliffe. The majority of Irish Catholics in Congress are Democrats; currently Susan Collins of Maine is the only Irish Catholic Republican senator. Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.[15] The pro-life silent majority in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006. [16]
Many major cities have elected Irish American Catholic mayors. Indeed, Boston, Cincinnati, Houston, Newark, New York City, Omaha, Scranton, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Saint Paul, and San Francisco have all elected natives of Ireland as mayor. Chicago, Boston, and Jersey City have had more Irish American mayors than any other ethnic group. The cities of Chicago, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Oakland, Omaha, St. Paul, Jersey City, Rochester, Springfield, Rockford, Scranton, and Syracuse currently (as of 2006) have Irish American mayors. All of these mayors are Democrats. Pittsburgh mayor Bob O'Connor died in office in 2006. New York City has had at least three Irish-born mayors and over eight Irish-American mayors. The most recent one was County Mayo native William O'Dwyer, elected in 1949.
The Irish Protestant vote has not been studied nearly as much. Since the 1840s, it has been uncommon for a Protestant politician to be identified as Irish. In Canada, by contrast, Irish Protestants remained a cohesive political force well into the 20th century with many (but not all) belonging to the Orange Order. Throughout the 19th century, sectarian confrontation was commonplace between Protestant Irish and Catholic Irish in Canadian cities.
[edit] Presidents of Irish Descent The following are the 16 Presidents of the Republic who have definite Irish ancestral origins. The extent of which varies from, for example, George W. Bush having a rather distant Irish ancestry, to the examples of Presidents Kennedy and Reagan, whose Irish origins fall much closer in terms of date. It is of particular sociological and historical note that whereas only "8 out of 28 Presidents from the institution of the office in 1789 until 1921 possessed elements of Irish ancestry, since Kennedy took office in 1961 every President bar one, Gerald Ford, has had Irish blood". Only one, however, namely John F. Kennedy, can be considered both Irish-American and Catholic.
St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York.Andrew Jackson, 7th President 1829-37 James Knox Polk, 11th President 1845-49 James Buchanan, 15th President 1857-61 Ulysses S Grant, 18th President 1869-77 Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President 1881-85 Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President 1885-89, 1893-97 William McKinley, 25th President 1897-1901 Woodrow Wilson, 28th President 1913-21 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 35th President 1961-63 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President 1963-69 Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th President 1969-74 James Earl Carter, 39th President 1977-81 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President 1981-89 George H.W. Bush, 41th President 1989-1993 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President 1993-2001 George W. Bush, 43rd President 2001-present Also, Jefferson Davis, 1st, President of the Confederate States of America
Me? Irish, French, German & Cherokee, raised by the most Irish (and Catholic) bits. My mother was liberal feminist anti-war hippie. My grandfather worked for JFK's Presidential campaign. And if either of them were alive and heard your statement about "right wingers", well, they'd give new meaning to the "Fighting Irish." Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Fortunately, you were kind enough to provide them:
Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.
Was someone talking about Irish- American Catholics and commitment to social justice?
The pro-life silent majority (wtf?) in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006.
Silent majority in the Dem party? What the hell is this? A mojority of Americans, of all stripes, are pro-choice. A crushing majority of Democrats are. What are you citing here? Am I suppose that this means those minoritarian Irish-American Catholics (the crushing minority who didn't vote for Reagan) who still think they are Democrats are pro-life?
To top it all off, perhaps your source has something on the Irish-American Catholic vote and Dubya's election and re-election.
I thank you kindly for proving my point. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Yes, that's it. It's all the Irish-Americans' fault. If it weren't for those bastards, Reagan would have only won 55 percent of the vote and taken 45 states in 1984.
This is idiocy.
The Reagan Democrat phenomena won Ronald Reagan the election in 1980. It put him over the top and changed America, for the worse, for 25 years and counting. They also contributed to his crushing electoral victory in 1984. Note that African Americans, who also voted overwhelmingly Democratic in the decades leading up to the 1980 election, continued to do so, while many white so-called "ethnic" American groups, including self-identified Irish-Americans, jumped ship.
Now, why could that be?
In my book, the 1980 election was the defining one in terms of making America the fairly politically regressive and economically social-darwinist state it is today. The 1984 election simply underlined this. And we are still living with the consequences of this, as both Americans and Europeans. Dubya in the White House is simply an extension of the same logic.
You'll note that all I said above was that I bet if you put two population density maps together, one with density of Reagan Democrats, one with Fans of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team, you'd get a real good correlation.
Folks took extreme issue with that statement, which I will continue to point out, and poemless confirms, is not at all controversial. For this, I got called something akin to a racist at some point up there in the thread.
All I gotta say is the numbers back me up.
Y'know, all these folks who are of 1/4 Irish extraction, simultaneously self-identifying as Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American and Norwegian-American (I've seen it done) tend to accentuate their putative Irishness when convenience, for instance mid-March. Many somehow had a grandparent who was discriminated against for being Irish, despite the fact that anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50. But somehow, these folks vote overwhelmingly for a race-baiter like Ronald Reagan and, by extension, think racism against African-Americans no longer exists (blacks in and around South Boston might think differently of course).
The idiocy is this myth of Irish-American victimhood, expressed above, and the corresponding myth that Irish-Americans are a wellspring for the righteous fight for social justice, also expressed above. Irish-Americans are no different from most other white Americans. They are generally conservative, they hew to a number of myths which point America in the direction it is pointed today, they like their non-neogitiable creature-comforts the externalities of which be damned, and they are sure they are good people despite the consequences of their electoral choices.
Excuse me for not drinking the kool-aid. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50
And you know, until this conversation, I honestly thought that anti-Irish bias really was a thing of the past. But apparently some people are stuck there.
Whatever that nasty kid did to you on the playground, let it go, man. It's eating your soul.
Nothing like being called a racist without justification.
Please, detail what I have said which is racist. I have said the following in their regard:
Cut the racist name-calling crap, it's beneath you. I assume. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
But apparently not beneath you.
I certainly won't go into choosing sides in any way, but I'll note that you are now officially talking past each other, and trollrating the person you're talking to is unlikely to be conducive to constructive dialogue.
Please? A gesture of peace? In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
I take objection to being called a bigot, of course, but you are correct, continuing the shitstorm doesn't serve a purpose. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Ah very well... Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Dubya was not elected and re-elected in a vaccuum.
Some of these myths are on display in the thread above by some of the American commentators.
Myth 1: If you are a decent and good person on an individual level, you are of course a progressive or, at the very least, you wouldn't do anything to undermine my interest. This is the myth Dubya was playing to in the debates with Gore, when he objected to Gore's attacks on him, saying Gore "doesn't know what's in my heart". The same myth leads MattinNYC to say his anti-abortion relatives who vote for a warmongerer are all the same decent people so of course they're not really conservative.
Myth 2: Your forebears experienced racism, so that means you're still a victim. And by extension, because you and yours were able to overcome such racism, those who haven't must be at fault for not having done so. Any African-American will recognize what I'm getting at here. Poemless cited this myth when bringing up the "no Irish need apply" history, and while I doubt very much poemless would fault African-Americans for racism still directed against them, the numbers would indicate, by voting patterns, that in general this sentiment is quite extensive in America today.
Myth 3: You're really from someplace else. You're simultaneously an Irish-American, a Polish-American and a waspy regular-issue American of English origin. By this very fact, this makes you a person of the world and not from a highly insular country which is extra-ordinarily sheltered, and has been for its entire history, from conflict and wars on your soil. As a consequence, you can solve the worlds problems by making them good - like you. Of course, the violence and the hundred of thousands killed in your name are all very far away, almost unreal. This last myth is arguably the most perfidious - it is also extremely widespread, far moreso than most American "liberals," the majority of whose Senators voted for Irak, care to admit. Perfidious because it allows the biggest war machine on the planet to be used to the great detriment of mankind without credible opposition on the part of folks in whose name the killing we be done. Why? Because of course those "decent people" cannot possibly have ill intentions, and America is a land of unleavened good. When you hear the phrase "muscular liberalism," remember this myth and its relationship to the American left.
These three myths, plus the one about the heroic individual, the self-made man who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps (as Lenin derisively refered to the myth) and the vast adherence of most Americans to them, including those on the left, are what I would argue render the left largely ineffectual in the US, or as another poster on this site said not to long ago, "the most incompetent left in the world".
So yeah, I got a filter, and when a certain American myth is invoked by Americans about their putative righteousness, I do tend to get irritated. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Maybe I'll post it up on kos.
Not. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.
I couldn't track down nationwide figures, but from what I found, this is a misrepresentation in the Wiki article. Large majorities were measured only in states with low and/or very diluted Irish-Catholic populations like Texas (65%) and Reagan's home California (64%), while New York's 53% was much closer to the national average (51%). *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
