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One thing you are forgetting is that you cannot simply give the autonomist movements their territorial claims, as there will be pockets within that that will want to be independent in their turn, or to stay in the larger entity. Just yesterday, Fran poined out the example of the Canton of Jura:
The people of the Jura region called for independence. After a long struggle, a constitution was accepted in 1977. In 1978 the split was made official when the Swiss people voted in favour of it, and in 1979 the Jura joined the Swiss Confederation as a full member. However, the southern part of the Jura region, which is also predominantly French-speaking, opted not to join the newly-formed canton, and instead remained part of Bern. This area is now known as Bernese Jura.
A favourite example of mine is the Schleswig Question.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 05:01:53 AM EST
Wikipedia: Schleswig
Conflict between Denmark and German states over Schleswig and Holstein led to the Schleswig-Holstein Question of the 19th century. Denmark attempted to integrate the Duchy of Schleswig into the Danish kingdom in 1848, leading to an uprising of Germans who supported Schleswig's ties with Holstein. The Kingdom of Prussia intervened and defeated Denmark in the resulting First War of Schleswig, but was forced to return Schleswig and Holstein under pressure from the Austrian and Russian Empires.

Denmark again attempted to integrate Schleswig in 1864, but the German Confederation defeated the Danes in the Second War of Schleswig. Prussia and Austria respectively assumed administration of Schleswig and Holstein under the Gastein Convention of 14 August 1865. However, tensions between the two powers culminated in the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, in which victorious Prussia annexed Schleswig and Holstein, creating the province of Schleswig-Holstein.

Two referenda held in 1920 resulted in the partition of the region. Northern Schleswig joined Denmark whereas Central Schleswig voted to remain a part of Germany. In Southern Schleswig no referendum was held as the likely outcome was apparent. The name Southern Schleswig is now used for all of German Schleswig.

Nowadays, both parts cooperate as a Euroregion.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 05:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia: Euroregion
In European politics, a Euroregion is a form of transnational co-operation structure between two (or more) territories located in different European countries.

Euroregions usually do not correspond to any legislative or governmental institution, do not have political power and their work is limited to the competences of the local and regional authorities which constitute them. They are usually arranged to promote common interests across the border and cooperate for the common good of the border populations.

Even though the Council of Europe sponsored term "euroregion" means a similar thing, it should not be confused with the European Union sponsored term regions in Europe.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 05:03:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sweden-Norways lack of military support for Denmark in those wars, particulary the last, doomed the Nordic nationalistic project, which was then replaced by more local national projects corresponding with the Nordic states we see today.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 10:17:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I recognize that.  This is why Spain becomes a mismash with Valencia and the Balearics seperate from Cataluna, and an independent Navarra.

That's part of what makes this all the more dangerous.

Wars have been fought over far less serious territorial claims than the ones brought up by many of these autonomist groups.  I was just trying to make a point with this, but I'm detecting some hostility here to the point I'm making.

Europe is vulnerable to the type of fracture that I've described, and the last few years have seen Spain and the UK begin to devolve rapidly.

I think I pulled a Jerome on this.  No one likes to have their flaws pointed out, nonetheless they exist.  And Europe has a serious nationalist question to confront.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 11:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see this fracture now in Catalonia. I don't know, maybe it's because the only people I heard talking about fractures here is the PP. Catalan people has been always pactist, since the time of the Counts of Barcelona, with a social life based upon bargaining and negotiation and only resorting to violence in very extreme situations.
Even if it's written in 1980, a recommended reading is  an essay by Salvador Giner, professor of Sociology at Universidad de Barcelona, called "The Social Structure of Catalonia", translated to English by the Anglo Catalan Society

http://www.kent.ac.uk/acsop/publications/acsop.php?r=acsop&d=01Social_Structure_in_Catalonia& ;f=00Title.txt

cheers

by amanda2006 on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 06:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one likes to have their flaws pointed out, nonetheless they exist.

I think some replies here might fit the bill, but others are either quibbles about specific examples of yours (without challenging the general point), or indications that the picture is even more complex than you paint it.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 08:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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