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What makes you think the article refers to 1984?

The Reagan Democrat phenomena won Ronald Reagan the election in 1980. It put him over the top and changed America, for the worse, for 25 years and counting.  They also contributed to his crushing electoral victory in 1984. Note that African Americans, who also voted overwhelmingly Democratic in the decades leading up to the 1980 election, continued to do so, while many white so-called "ethnic" American groups, including self-identified Irish-Americans, jumped ship.

Now, why could that be?

In my book, the 1980 election was the defining one in terms of making America the fairly politically regressive and economically social-darwinist state it is today. The 1984 election simply underlined this. And we are still living with the consequences of this, as both Americans and Europeans. Dubya in the White House is simply an extension of the same logic.

You'll note that all I said above was that I bet if you put two population density maps together, one with density of Reagan Democrats, one with Fans of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team, you'd get a real good correlation.

Folks took extreme issue with that statement, which I will continue to point out, and poemless confirms, is not at all controversial. For this, I got called something akin to a racist at some point up there in the thread.

All I gotta say is the numbers back me up.

Y'know, all these folks who are of 1/4 Irish extraction, simultaneously self-identifying as Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American and Norwegian-American (I've seen it done) tend to accentuate their putative Irishness when convenience, for instance mid-March. Many somehow had a grandparent who was discriminated against for being Irish, despite the fact that anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50.
But somehow, these folks vote overwhelmingly for a race-baiter like Ronald Reagan and, by extension, think racism against African-Americans no longer exists (blacks in and around South Boston might think differently of course).

The idiocy is this myth of Irish-American victimhood, expressed above, and the corresponding myth that Irish-Americans are a wellspring for the righteous fight for social justice, also expressed above. Irish-Americans are no different from most other white Americans. They are generally conservative, they hew to a number of myths which point America in the direction it is pointed today, they like their non-neogitiable creature-comforts the externalities of which be damned, and they are sure they are good people despite the consequences of their electoral choices.

Excuse me for not drinking the kool-aid.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 10:40:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50

And you know, until this conversation, I honestly thought that anti-Irish bias really was a thing of the past. But apparently some people are stuck there.

Whatever that nasty kid did to you on the playground, let it go, man.  It's eating your soul.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 10:59:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh get over yourself.

Nothing like being called a racist without justification.

Please, detail what I have said which is racist. I have said the following in their regard:

  1. Irish-Americans, like white Americans in general, are conservative. They don't have any special claim to righteousness, as some have claimed. Note this came up originally when Colman was observing the irony of all those conservative Irish-Americans giving money to Noraid and the nominally Marxist IRA.

  2. That Irish-Americans and other Notre-Dame Fighting Irish fans tended to be Reagan Democrats

  3. It is impossible to be a Reagan Democrat and be progressive; these two points of view are incompatible.

Somehow, you and certain others seem to get defensive. But you can't contest the points on the merits, can you?

Cut the racist name-calling crap, it's beneath you. I assume.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cut the racist name-calling crap, it's beneath you. I assume.

But apparently not beneath you.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 11:40:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please, everybody on the thread, take a breath, stand back, and calm down.

I certainly won't go into choosing sides in any way, but I'll note that you are now officially talking past each other, and trollrating the person you're talking to is unlikely to be conducive to constructive dialogue.

Please? A gesture of peace?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I tried to undo that troll thing, thinking better of it, but I guess you can't undo a rating?

I take objection to being called a bigot, of course, but you are correct, continuing the shitstorm doesn't serve a purpose.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll have to change it to a 4 for penance. I don't know why that happens...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ooh, that hurts.

Ah very well...

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For some reason you can't go from 1->none.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:24:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm...

  1. If you said "The majority of Irish-Americans...", that would not sound like racist over-generalisation.
  2. It doesn't follow. Correlation in patterns doesn't translate to majority matching between two sub-groups (it could even be that one trend is a counter-culture to the other); and I would like to see graphic evidence of your claim to see just how strong that correlation is.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 12:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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