whether it was more than footwork with the ira and sinn fein, i dunno, never followed it all that much, though i guess i vaguely recollect sinn fein doing fairly well in the republic elections playing to the left (though given the two main parties ideological bent, this can't be all that hard i imagine).
your note on irony is well put, and given the right-wing bias of your average Irish-American, as ably represented in the punditocracy in America by Sean Hannity, Bill O'reilly, John Tierney, Peggy Noonan and company, it is doubly ironic. Hell, the ira's biggest backer in America was a GOP congressman from New York - Peter King, though i gather this changed somewhat after 911... Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
-- splutter --
Excuse me?
That's a little like saying that vegetarians have well-known fascist tendencies, just because Hitler was one. Come on.
There are roughly 40 million Irish Americans, and I think it's safe to say that at least half of them don't fall into the "right-wing" category... including, oh, let's think for a second... .the Kennedy clan?!
Actually, when you think about the rather blue nature of the states & cities where Irish Americans are traditionally concentrated (New York, Boston, Chicago), it would probably be more accurate to say that Irish Americans tend toward the left.
OTOH, if we limit our analysis to the blowhards who actually get a broadcast voice, that voice in decidedly right-wing.
Objectively speaking of course, again imho, the center of gravity of the Democratic party, as far as OECD norms are concerned, is decidely center-right. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
if we limit our analysis to the blowhards who actually get a broadcast voice
... then we wouldn't be talking about the "average" Irish-American, would we?
Catholics used to vote Democratic because of social justice stuff, and a lot of them still do. Regarding Irish Americans' political leanings, my experience has been pretty much the opposite of yours. But as you said, that's anecdotal.
At any rate, I don't think you can possibly generalize to the political leanings of "Irish Americans," since the population is too large, too diffuse, too diverse and in most places too integrated into "mainstream" American society for their ethnic identity to have any bearing on their political identity. Unlike, for example, African Americans, there are few election-day issues that affect Irish Americans as a group, and would therefore drive them to vote as a bloc, at least not on a national level. I would submit that there is no "Irish American" political identity, with the possible exceptions of Boston and a few other cities.
On the center of gravity in the Democratic party, of course, you are entirely right. Er, correct.
Catholics used to vote Democratic because of social justice stuff, and a lot of them still do.
I'm not up on US social history as much as I should be I guess, but seems to me there was a Tammany Hall Democrat element to why many "ethnics" in the US voted for the Democratic party. Patronage and whatnot. Not a bad plan back in those days of discrimination.
I imagine those who still do, given the weakening (but certainly not disappearance) of patronage machines in US cities, do so for reasons to which you allude.
There is, however, the phenomena of the so-called "Reagan Democrat" to contend with, though. I suspect if one imagines a density map of Reagan Democrats in the US, and overlay it with fans of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, we might see a pretty good correlation... Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Maybe you think Reagan was Irish-Catholic? Despite the name, he certainly was not!
And Pat Buchanan too. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
It's the ones who moved to America, and forget their class roots, I have an issue with. And I've cited some of the more famous examples, too. Far more religious than their cousins still in Ireland. Prickly as well.
But we all know it's ok to say frog all one likes you see, but throw out an aspersion on the Irish-American community and, well, you've uttered some fighting words, eh? Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
While our country had some misguided angst toward France because of the war, I don't know of any of French-Americans who get a lot of shit. I'm from St. Louis, where there are a lot of people with French heritage, most of the place names are French, and there are even old French settlements. Never heard anyone get shit about it.
Irish Americans, however were historically segregated and subject to institutional racism in America. When my great grandfather came here, there were signs on buildings "No Irish Allowed." It was legal for people to refuse to hire the Irish. My grandfather went out of his way to hire and help African Americans, long before the Civil Rights movement, precisely because of what his own father went through. He knew the racism was bullshit.
And to this day, there persists a stereotype of Irish Americans as corrupt, working class, etc. Certainly nothing to the extent that it was, but here in Chicago, well, the Daleys aren't doing anything to improve the situation.
So, yeah, you don't mess with the Irish. Sorry.
You should rent the movie, "In America." Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
I thought not.
We're talking current affairs, not the history of our grandparents' grandparents.
How 'bout "No blacks allowed"...that's right, that's still going on, less obvious than before, but going on all the same. Didn't stop those Irish-American Catholics from voting overwhelmingly for Ronald Reagan, he who popularized the term welfare queen, what with its racial overtones. That's right, once you get yours, you forget about those who are still in line, don't you?
As for French being thought of poorly, I'm first generation. In fact, I'm a dual citizen, and my wife is only now getting 'round to naturalizing US. We speak French at home, I did growing up, and I do with my kids and wife now. We also speak it occasioanlly out in the real world. And I can tell you, it wasn't too cool to be speaking French while waiting in line at the grocery store three years back. Suddenly, total strangers had an opinion of you, and they were quite willing to let you know what it was. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Pot meet kettle... Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Again, this is offensive. It's not Irish, just Irish Americans you have an issue with, eh? You are talking about 34 million people, not a few talking heads on tv and some people you met. That's practically the population of Poland. If you have an issue with that many people, that falls along ethnic lines, that sounds like racism. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Have nothing to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with ideology. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
whaddaya think? Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
This being said, J.-M. Le Pen's support is also quite working class. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Are you perhaps confused by the abortion issue? I'll grant you that there are some Irish-Catholics who have voted Republican based on that issue...
Like I said, I'm surrounded by such people, the existence of which, in today's America, is essentially a QED to my argument. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
The unfortunate flipside of this philosophy you seem to espouse is that all it takes is to be a decent human being to be at heart a progressive. This is a common American attitude, as common as it is wrong. And a recent diary Jerome did over on kos, and in particular the virulent reaction of many kossacks to him, on charity, demonstrates the power of this misguided notion in America, and underlines its limitations.
Georg Lukács ought to be required curriculum in America. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
What does this say about your "analytical prowess" yardstick and the consitency thereof? Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Fine, I apologize for being snarky to you in the comment above. I should have found a way to point out the myriad flaws in your reasoning without actually making fun of you.
I would like you to consider the possibility that the reaction that your comments are getting from a variety of people should indicate that perhaps your rhetoric is a tad... inflammatory. And offensive. Your points, whatever they might be, are lost. Your arguments would be better served by actually making arguments, rather than sweeping statements that are unsupported by any facts you have provided thus far.
But it's clear to me that your mind is made up, and your bias is clear. Sad, but very clear.
His logic appears unobjectionable to you, mine less so.
Why is that?
Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
You are obviously as far removed from the topic of this diary as it gets.
Somehow "who said what" is not very relevant to the possibilities of an outbreak of endemic nationalism in Europe. Or so it looks to me. A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
Your logic has been flawed since your first comment, and you've offended a number of people.
But if if it makes you feel less like a victim of some massive Irish-American plot to destroy you, I'll say this: Nobody in this thread has cited adequate evidence to prove that the "average" Irish-American is either conservative or liberal.
Now honestly, I don't have time to chase around shadows any more tonight. If you have some problem with hyphenated-Americans in general, which is what I see you're now claiming, then write a diary about it and let's stop cluttering up this one with irrelevant arguments about who's the worst racist.
Please cut your accusation of racism and bigotry crap. I cast no aspersions on the Irish whatsoever, if I cast them, it is on Americans. Irish-Americans are perfectly assimilated; if anything, what I'm saying is there's no difference from so-called Irish-Americans and plain old Americans. You think that is racism?
Want to call me anti-American, fine, there it is, I cop to the charge. That's not racism, that's just a recognition of what America has become in today's world. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
That's a rather interesting re-interpretation of what you said. To me, bias seemed obvious across multiple comments of yours, and I am neither Irish nor American, so you should at least consider to communicate your ideas differently, as stormy present suggested. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Bill O'Reilly: is a moron and a bully, and I don't think either of those things have anything to do with his ethnicity.
Hannity: from what I hear, has recently become critical of the Bush Administration. Perhaps you could argue that this parallels the swing voter mentality and that the Catholics are swing voters (Reagan Democrats.) In my family the Catholics are Italian. And they are neo-cons. Huh.
Pat Buchanan: is a Nazi. Hey, let's talk about people with German last names. Hey! I have a German last name! Guess my voting record!
...
In America, most people are of mixed ethnicity. And for the most part, people are not judged on their last name. And no ethnicity is monolithic, though those most often associated with a political party (Jews, African Americans, ...Irish) are associated with the Democratic Party. 34 million Americans claim Irish heritage. To try to make a generalization about them is silly.
Interestingly enough, the places where Irish pride is most vocal are places like Chicago, Boston, and New York, which will be "right-wing" oh, about a year after hell freezes over.
Here are some fun facts, care of wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American
Irish in politics and government The Catholic Irish moved rapidly into law enforcement, and (through the Catholic Church) built hundreds of schools, colleges, orphanages, hospitals, and asylums. Political opposition to the Catholic Irish climaxed in 1854 in the short-lived Know Nothing Party. By the 1850s, the Irish Catholics were a major presence in the police departments of large cities. In New York City in 1855, of the city's 1,149 policemen, 305 were natives of Ireland. The creation of a unified police force in Philadelphia opened the door for the Irish in that city. By 1860 in Chicago, 49 of the 107 on the police force were Irish. Chief O'Leary headed the police force in New Orleans and Malachi Fallon was chief of police of San Francisco.[14] The Irish had a reputation of being very well organized, and, since 1850, have produced a majority of the leaders of the Catholic Church in the U.S., labor unions, the Democratic Party in larger cities, and Catholic high schools, colleges and universities. Politically, the Irish Catholic typically voted 80-95% Democratic in elections down to 1964. John F. Kennedy was their greatest political hero. Al Smith, who lost to Herbert Hoover in the 1928 presidential election, was the first Irish Catholic to run for president. From the 1830s to the 1960s, Irish Catholics voted 80-95% Democratic, with occasional exceptions like the election of 1920. Today, most Irish Catholic politicians are associated with the Democratic Party, although some have become Republican leaders, such as former GOP national chairman Ed Gillespie, House Homeland Security Chairman Peter T. King and retiring Congressman Henry Hyde. Ronald Reagan boasted of his Irishness. (The son of an Irish Catholic father, he was raised as a Protestant.) Historically, Irish Catholics controlled many city machines and often served as chairmen of the Democratic National Committee, including County Monaghan native Thomas Taggart, Vance McCormick, James Farley, Edward J. Flynn, Robert E. Hannegan, J. Howard McGrath, William H. Boyle, Jr., John Moran Bailey, Larry O'Brien, Christopher J. Dodd, and Terry McAuliffe. The majority of Irish Catholics in Congress are Democrats; currently Susan Collins of Maine is the only Irish Catholic Republican senator. Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.[15] The pro-life silent majority in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006. [16] Many major cities have elected Irish American Catholic mayors. Indeed, Boston, Cincinnati, Houston, Newark, New York City, Omaha, Scranton, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Saint Paul, and San Francisco have all elected natives of Ireland as mayor. Chicago, Boston, and Jersey City have had more Irish American mayors than any other ethnic group. The cities of Chicago, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Oakland, Omaha, St. Paul, Jersey City, Rochester, Springfield, Rockford, Scranton, and Syracuse currently (as of 2006) have Irish American mayors. All of these mayors are Democrats. Pittsburgh mayor Bob O'Connor died in office in 2006. New York City has had at least three Irish-born mayors and over eight Irish-American mayors. The most recent one was County Mayo native William O'Dwyer, elected in 1949. The Irish Protestant vote has not been studied nearly as much. Since the 1840s, it has been uncommon for a Protestant politician to be identified as Irish. In Canada, by contrast, Irish Protestants remained a cohesive political force well into the 20th century with many (but not all) belonging to the Orange Order. Throughout the 19th century, sectarian confrontation was commonplace between Protestant Irish and Catholic Irish in Canadian cities. [edit] Presidents of Irish Descent The following are the 16 Presidents of the Republic who have definite Irish ancestral origins. The extent of which varies from, for example, George W. Bush having a rather distant Irish ancestry, to the examples of Presidents Kennedy and Reagan, whose Irish origins fall much closer in terms of date. It is of particular sociological and historical note that whereas only "8 out of 28 Presidents from the institution of the office in 1789 until 1921 possessed elements of Irish ancestry, since Kennedy took office in 1961 every President bar one, Gerald Ford, has had Irish blood". Only one, however, namely John F. Kennedy, can be considered both Irish-American and Catholic. St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York.Andrew Jackson, 7th President 1829-37 James Knox Polk, 11th President 1845-49 James Buchanan, 15th President 1857-61 Ulysses S Grant, 18th President 1869-77 Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President 1881-85 Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President 1885-89, 1893-97 William McKinley, 25th President 1897-1901 Woodrow Wilson, 28th President 1913-21 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 35th President 1961-63 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President 1963-69 Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th President 1969-74 James Earl Carter, 39th President 1977-81 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President 1981-89 George H.W. Bush, 41th President 1989-1993 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President 1993-2001 George W. Bush, 43rd President 2001-present Also, Jefferson Davis, 1st, President of the Confederate States of America
By the 1850s, the Irish Catholics were a major presence in the police departments of large cities. In New York City in 1855, of the city's 1,149 policemen, 305 were natives of Ireland. The creation of a unified police force in Philadelphia opened the door for the Irish in that city. By 1860 in Chicago, 49 of the 107 on the police force were Irish. Chief O'Leary headed the police force in New Orleans and Malachi Fallon was chief of police of San Francisco.[14]
The Irish had a reputation of being very well organized, and, since 1850, have produced a majority of the leaders of the Catholic Church in the U.S., labor unions, the Democratic Party in larger cities, and Catholic high schools, colleges and universities. Politically, the Irish Catholic typically voted 80-95% Democratic in elections down to 1964. John F. Kennedy was their greatest political hero. Al Smith, who lost to Herbert Hoover in the 1928 presidential election, was the first Irish Catholic to run for president. From the 1830s to the 1960s, Irish Catholics voted 80-95% Democratic, with occasional exceptions like the election of 1920.
Today, most Irish Catholic politicians are associated with the Democratic Party, although some have become Republican leaders, such as former GOP national chairman Ed Gillespie, House Homeland Security Chairman Peter T. King and retiring Congressman Henry Hyde. Ronald Reagan boasted of his Irishness. (The son of an Irish Catholic father, he was raised as a Protestant.) Historically, Irish Catholics controlled many city machines and often served as chairmen of the Democratic National Committee, including County Monaghan native Thomas Taggart, Vance McCormick, James Farley, Edward J. Flynn, Robert E. Hannegan, J. Howard McGrath, William H. Boyle, Jr., John Moran Bailey, Larry O'Brien, Christopher J. Dodd, and Terry McAuliffe. The majority of Irish Catholics in Congress are Democrats; currently Susan Collins of Maine is the only Irish Catholic Republican senator. Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.[15] The pro-life silent majority in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006. [16]
Many major cities have elected Irish American Catholic mayors. Indeed, Boston, Cincinnati, Houston, Newark, New York City, Omaha, Scranton, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Saint Paul, and San Francisco have all elected natives of Ireland as mayor. Chicago, Boston, and Jersey City have had more Irish American mayors than any other ethnic group. The cities of Chicago, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Oakland, Omaha, St. Paul, Jersey City, Rochester, Springfield, Rockford, Scranton, and Syracuse currently (as of 2006) have Irish American mayors. All of these mayors are Democrats. Pittsburgh mayor Bob O'Connor died in office in 2006. New York City has had at least three Irish-born mayors and over eight Irish-American mayors. The most recent one was County Mayo native William O'Dwyer, elected in 1949.
The Irish Protestant vote has not been studied nearly as much. Since the 1840s, it has been uncommon for a Protestant politician to be identified as Irish. In Canada, by contrast, Irish Protestants remained a cohesive political force well into the 20th century with many (but not all) belonging to the Orange Order. Throughout the 19th century, sectarian confrontation was commonplace between Protestant Irish and Catholic Irish in Canadian cities.
[edit] Presidents of Irish Descent The following are the 16 Presidents of the Republic who have definite Irish ancestral origins. The extent of which varies from, for example, George W. Bush having a rather distant Irish ancestry, to the examples of Presidents Kennedy and Reagan, whose Irish origins fall much closer in terms of date. It is of particular sociological and historical note that whereas only "8 out of 28 Presidents from the institution of the office in 1789 until 1921 possessed elements of Irish ancestry, since Kennedy took office in 1961 every President bar one, Gerald Ford, has had Irish blood". Only one, however, namely John F. Kennedy, can be considered both Irish-American and Catholic.
St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York.Andrew Jackson, 7th President 1829-37 James Knox Polk, 11th President 1845-49 James Buchanan, 15th President 1857-61 Ulysses S Grant, 18th President 1869-77 Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President 1881-85 Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President 1885-89, 1893-97 William McKinley, 25th President 1897-1901 Woodrow Wilson, 28th President 1913-21 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 35th President 1961-63 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President 1963-69 Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th President 1969-74 James Earl Carter, 39th President 1977-81 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President 1981-89 George H.W. Bush, 41th President 1989-1993 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President 1993-2001 George W. Bush, 43rd President 2001-present Also, Jefferson Davis, 1st, President of the Confederate States of America
Me? Irish, French, German & Cherokee, raised by the most Irish (and Catholic) bits. My mother was liberal feminist anti-war hippie. My grandfather worked for JFK's Presidential campaign. And if either of them were alive and heard your statement about "right wingers", well, they'd give new meaning to the "Fighting Irish." Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Fortunately, you were kind enough to provide them:
Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates; large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.
Was someone talking about Irish- American Catholics and commitment to social justice?
The pro-life silent majority (wtf?) in the Democratic party includes many Irish Catholic politicians, such as senator-elect Bob Casey, Jr., who defeated Senator Rick Santorum in a high visibility race in Pennsylvania in 2006.
Silent majority in the Dem party? What the hell is this? A mojority of Americans, of all stripes, are pro-choice. A crushing majority of Democrats are. What are you citing here? Am I suppose that this means those minoritarian Irish-American Catholics (the crushing minority who didn't vote for Reagan) who still think they are Democrats are pro-life?
To top it all off, perhaps your source has something on the Irish-American Catholic vote and Dubya's election and re-election.
I thank you kindly for proving my point. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Yes, that's it. It's all the Irish-Americans' fault. If it weren't for those bastards, Reagan would have only won 55 percent of the vote and taken 45 states in 1984.
This is idiocy.
The Reagan Democrat phenomena won Ronald Reagan the election in 1980. It put him over the top and changed America, for the worse, for 25 years and counting. They also contributed to his crushing electoral victory in 1984. Note that African Americans, who also voted overwhelmingly Democratic in the decades leading up to the 1980 election, continued to do so, while many white so-called "ethnic" American groups, including self-identified Irish-Americans, jumped ship.
Now, why could that be?
In my book, the 1980 election was the defining one in terms of making America the fairly politically regressive and economically social-darwinist state it is today. The 1984 election simply underlined this. And we are still living with the consequences of this, as both Americans and Europeans. Dubya in the White House is simply an extension of the same logic.
You'll note that all I said above was that I bet if you put two population density maps together, one with density of Reagan Democrats, one with Fans of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team, you'd get a real good correlation.
Folks took extreme issue with that statement, which I will continue to point out, and poemless confirms, is not at all controversial. For this, I got called something akin to a racist at some point up there in the thread.
All I gotta say is the numbers back me up.
Y'know, all these folks who are of 1/4 Irish extraction, simultaneously self-identifying as Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American and Norwegian-American (I've seen it done) tend to accentuate their putative Irishness when convenience, for instance mid-March. Many somehow had a grandparent who was discriminated against for being Irish, despite the fact that anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50. But somehow, these folks vote overwhelmingly for a race-baiter like Ronald Reagan and, by extension, think racism against African-Americans no longer exists (blacks in and around South Boston might think differently of course).
The idiocy is this myth of Irish-American victimhood, expressed above, and the corresponding myth that Irish-Americans are a wellspring for the righteous fight for social justice, also expressed above. Irish-Americans are no different from most other white Americans. They are generally conservative, they hew to a number of myths which point America in the direction it is pointed today, they like their non-neogitiable creature-comforts the externalities of which be damned, and they are sure they are good people despite the consequences of their electoral choices.
Excuse me for not drinking the kool-aid. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
anti-Irish bias in America was in full swing 125 years ago, not 50
And you know, until this conversation, I honestly thought that anti-Irish bias really was a thing of the past. But apparently some people are stuck there.
Whatever that nasty kid did to you on the playground, let it go, man. It's eating your soul.
Nothing like being called a racist without justification.
Please, detail what I have said which is racist. I have said the following in their regard:
Cut the racist name-calling crap, it's beneath you. I assume. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
But apparently not beneath you.
I certainly won't go into choosing sides in any way, but I'll note that you are now officially talking past each other, and trollrating the person you're talking to is unlikely to be conducive to constructive dialogue.
Please? A gesture of peace? In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
I take objection to being called a bigot, of course, but you are correct, continuing the shitstorm doesn't serve a purpose. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Ah very well... Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Dubya was not elected and re-elected in a vaccuum.
Some of these myths are on display in the thread above by some of the American commentators.
Myth 1: If you are a decent and good person on an individual level, you are of course a progressive or, at the very least, you wouldn't do anything to undermine my interest. This is the myth Dubya was playing to in the debates with Gore, when he objected to Gore's attacks on him, saying Gore "doesn't know what's in my heart". The same myth leads MattinNYC to say his anti-abortion relatives who vote for a warmongerer are all the same decent people so of course they're not really conservative.
Myth 2: Your forebears experienced racism, so that means you're still a victim. And by extension, because you and yours were able to overcome such racism, those who haven't must be at fault for not having done so. Any African-American will recognize what I'm getting at here. Poemless cited this myth when bringing up the "no Irish need apply" history, and while I doubt very much poemless would fault African-Americans for racism still directed against them, the numbers would indicate, by voting patterns, that in general this sentiment is quite extensive in America today.
Myth 3: You're really from someplace else. You're simultaneously an Irish-American, a Polish-American and a waspy regular-issue American of English origin. By this very fact, this makes you a person of the world and not from a highly insular country which is extra-ordinarily sheltered, and has been for its entire history, from conflict and wars on your soil. As a consequence, you can solve the worlds problems by making them good - like you. Of course, the violence and the hundred of thousands killed in your name are all very far away, almost unreal. This last myth is arguably the most perfidious - it is also extremely widespread, far moreso than most American "liberals," the majority of whose Senators voted for Irak, care to admit. Perfidious because it allows the biggest war machine on the planet to be used to the great detriment of mankind without credible opposition on the part of folks in whose name the killing we be done. Why? Because of course those "decent people" cannot possibly have ill intentions, and America is a land of unleavened good. When you hear the phrase "muscular liberalism," remember this myth and its relationship to the American left.
These three myths, plus the one about the heroic individual, the self-made man who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps (as Lenin derisively refered to the myth) and the vast adherence of most Americans to them, including those on the left, are what I would argue render the left largely ineffectual in the US, or as another poster on this site said not to long ago, "the most incompetent left in the world".
So yeah, I got a filter, and when a certain American myth is invoked by Americans about their putative righteousness, I do tend to get irritated. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
Maybe I'll post it up on kos.
Not. Fai de bčn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
large majorities voted for Ronald Reagan.
I couldn't track down nationwide figures, but from what I found, this is a misrepresentation in the Wiki article. Large majorities were measured only in states with low and/or very diluted Irish-Catholic populations like Texas (65%) and Reagan's home California (64%), while New York's 53% was much closer to the national average (51%). *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Even the SNP clings to version of national liberation.
And for the IRA, the support typically came from the inebriated clients of Irish pubs in the American Northeast. ETA had some success raising money in Basque areas in Idaho and other areas of the US west, and raised lots of money in South America. And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
