Display:
Those are of Bombardier's Flexity Swift family. Though the company is Canadian, the type was developed in Germany (first supplied to Cologne).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 07:19:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was a city planning student in the 1970s, I worked on several projects that assumed we would have some sort of transit system on the Hiawatha corridor.

I took 30 years and the surprise election of a professional wrestler before it was built.  It has been wonderfully successful and cost less to build that a new freeway interchange.  And of course, the technology was not made in USA.

As much as everyone likes the new tram line, it is obvious that such an important transit link should have gotten a real subway line.  

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 02:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why should it have been a subway? Non-interference with surface traffic and benefits to the riders stemming from the extreme climate are all I can think of (neither of which are trivial I'll admit). The corridor isn't particularly high density.

The downtown to downtown line proposed for University Ave / I-94 would make more sense as a subway, I think.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 04:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Real subway? I read average is up to 25,000+ riders a day, good for a tram, but to my knowledge a subway needs upwards of 100,000 a day. I looked up some figures for Budapest -- there are several tram lines with 50,000+ daily ridership, while the presently in construction line 4 subway was projected for 475,000/day but is criticised for massaging numbers to appear cost-neutral, with 300,000/day (and losses) seen more likely. (And mentioned should-be-subway tram lines 4/6 transport 200,000.)

On the other hand, with Google I find Minneapolis/St. Paul metropolitan area has 3 million inhabitants (though less than a million downtown), big enough for a well-designed subway system. But certainly, it would be good to have more than one line.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 05:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More Budapest subway line traffic numbers:
  • line 1 (from 1896, could as well be called light metro): 105,000/workday
  • line 2 (Russian-style heavy metro): 425,000/workday
  • line 3 (ditto, longer): 610,000/workday


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 06:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The three million people are spread out over a very large area, see the area counted here (graphic in upper right). Much of it is rural. A full scale subway system could serve about 1 million people. I think a commuter rail system is needed as much as anything, and in fact they are going ahead with one, the Northstar Corridor.

There is an interesting tidbit in there that you wouldn't expect to hear very often in the US:

The Minnesota Department of Transportation (Mn/DOT) and the Northstar Corridor Development Authority (NCDA) studied options for development of the corridor to handle the increasing commuter load, and felt that a commuter rail line was the best option. It is expected to cost about US$265 million in 2008 dollars, estimated to be approximately 1/3 the cost of upgrading existing highways.

Granted it's that much cheaper because the rail is already in place, but that kind of thinking hasn't been common in the past, and would be referred to as "social engineering" by the usual suspects. I think American politicians have come around to the reality that our highways simply cannot scale further (without even taking into account the potential nightmares of declining future energy and resource availability and the implications for our road system).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 07:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With the amount of groundwater in Minneapolis (land of 10,000 lakes and all) I imagine it would be a nightmare to drill the tunnels.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 13th, 2006 at 05:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a tunnel on the light rail line (under the airport runways. As I argued to someone in another diary a few months ago, groundwater is no problem per se, a pressure-balanced tunnel builder machine will go through it, or you could build from the surface with diaphragm walls and ballast weight for hydrostatic equilibrum -- indeed most city tunnels are in groundwater. Varied strata, especially if it varies between hard rock and water-carrying sediment, or water-carrying layers deep in the route of mountain tunnels is what's problematic.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 13th, 2006 at 07:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series