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Yes, but DLR is overground, usually on elevated tracks.

This is about trams so I glossed over it. Also, it also covers mostly the north bank, although it has, as you say one river crossing and will get more.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 08:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And that river crossing underground :-) Why don't you consider the DLR a tram?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 09:42:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose because it doesn't share its rights of way with regular traffic at any point, and it's all on dedicated track? After all, they chose to make it elevated instead of street-level.

The Tramlink does have some sections outside of streets, and shares track with the commuter rail, but it does have sections where it shares the right-of-way with regular traffic.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 09:50:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it doesn't share its rights of way with regular traffic at any point, and it's all on dedicated track?

Is that true at the Western and South-of-Thames ends too? (I'm asking naively, I only assumed they cross streets from maps.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 09:54:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those sections are elevated, except the last stretch of track into Bank, which gets into a tunnel.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 10:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that I think of it, I really don't know how I could have thought they cross roads even from maps, given that they are third-rail-powered!... So just light-rail, light metro.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 10:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I was just now going to make a comment about the third rail ;-)

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 10:21:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A friend of my father's used to work for Spain's national rail company RENFE as an engineer, but 10 to 15 yers ago decided to open a transportation consultancy with a couple of friends. I remember a conversation where he explained that trams were a very hard sell because politicians thought they were old-fashioned, so he said you needed to tell the mayor (or whomever) Lo que usted necesita es un Metro Ligero ("what you need is a Light Metro").

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 10:25:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny, that was something I wanted to bring up to stormy and R343L, that there is also a marketing level to the use of terminology here. "Light rail" also seems to sound sexier than "trolley/streetcar/tram".

Meanwhile, While the French boom and form design made surface light rail again fashionable with politicians, I note another bad trend: surface light rail and even more light metros are often brought up by politicians instead of heavy metros, as a cost-saving alternative -- which can lead to shiny new lines with insufficient capacity and slow traffic due to jammed streets...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 10:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The DLR was initially built very cheaply to run alongside existing rail-lines between Tower Gateway and Limehouse. From there it used redundant railway lines and viaducts that served the former docks, with some new elevated sections to run through the Canary Wharf area, to Island Gardens where it terminated at a high level on an old viaduct. Using light rail meant that no extensive rebuilding was required and the tight of way was already established.

From that first route, the line was extended to Bank Station in a new tunnel to provide a more convenient link with the rest of the tube network. Other lines on elevated track took the system to the service/"garage" facilities near All Saints, using elevated new sections for most of the way. The line to Stratford from there used old docks lines again. The southern extension involves a new tunnel under the Thames from Island Gardens which is now underground until it joins the existing BR station at Greenwich. From there again redundant routes were used to Lewisham. The other extensions are again a mixture of old dock railway routes and new build.

There is a tram system in Croydon which although is technically a separate town, is part of Greater London. That runs through the streets and then joins a redundant rail line towards Wimbledon that if memory serves was mostly used to haul coal to a town gas/coke plant at what is now Ikea and power stations at Mitcham. (I used to live in the area but I am not sure about the more southerly part of the routes)

One point of trivia, if it is the route I think it is, it runs close to the line of a horse drawn wooden railed line that ran from the south coast to London to haul fresh fish - accounting for a huge number of oyster shells found locally and a history of children making "grottos" or mini-gardens using them in order to beg for change to spend at Mitcham fair.

by Londonbear on Tue Dec 12th, 2006 at 11:13:02 AM EST
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