France is just as much an immigration nation as the USA
I think this is one of those terms that means different things to different people. In the American context, "immigrant nation" doesn't mean "a nation with a lot of immigrants," it means "a nation where (almost) everyone is descended from immigrants." In other words, part of that American national myth that redstar was talking about, i.e. "we're all immigrants." I doubt that France thinks of itself as a nation of immigrants in the same way.
I doubt that France thinks of itself as a nation of immigrants in the same way.
Because all immigrants become French, not hyphenated French. Their status as immigrants is irrelevant.
But we are a nation where (almost) everyone is descended from immigrants. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
your confusion may be that Americans that are a couple of generations away from the "old country" are usually curious and interested in where there ancestors come from. But you are totally off base in thinking you understand America on this point. this is a great example of either not understanding, or just trashing America.
I wonder too if those young people rioting last year just consider themselves French?
As to this:
If you read ET at that time or later, you'd know that the answer to that is an unambiguous and resounding YES. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
But this is absolutely not the reaction that my friends would have. In fact, it is quite common among my group of acquaintances for people to go back to their home country. I have an Indian friend who has gone back. I have another Indian friend that is retired, and spends about 40%, he and his wife, of his time in India. They have family there,,,it just is not at all surprising, and literally no one is sad for them, or thinks they've fallen off the cliff. The same with Europe. I have an English friend who thinks "America is the place to earn a living, because you're not caught up ina class system, and the economic system allows hard work to move you to the top", but, he says, "Europe is the place to retire,,,Europeans know how to live the better life, with the culture, etc." We'll see on him--his kids are still fairly young, and they seem pretty American to me,,,,I'm not sure if he and his wife will want to be away from them, and the grandkids--down the road.
I would like to someday have a place in London, and spend a significant amount of time there. It's my favorite city in the world--too bad about the prices. -:}
I could continue with these examples, because I have many--and vice versa as well,,,Americans living in Europe and staying,,,others coming back.
It is just not accurate to generalise the reactions you describe to Americans.
</snark>
My black friends think of themselves as American. My Norweigan, Italian, Irish,etc friends think of themselves as American. My Indian friends think of themselves as American.
So explain why you think this please.
Ten generations, sure - there we're talking about those who are descended from before the big 1880-1920 wave of immigration. But from then on it gets different. Perhaps not out west where the Italians and Irish and Poles no longer have any ties to the old village-like urban enclaves, but in the Northeast and the metropolitan areas of the industrial Midwest things are different. Here you get fourth generation Italian kids going wild over Italy's soccer team, waving their flags as they run through the streets. Kids who don't follow soccer, have never been to Italy, and don't speak any Italian - but they sure as hell are Italian, and Italy won.
This town is a mosaic of tribes and sub-tribes for whom their ethnic identity is an essential part of both their intense local identity and their national (American) one. Even when they move out into the suburbs they retain their ethnic identities, thus giving us phenomena like Congressman Peter King (R/Sinn Fein-NY) whose Irish Republican allegiance takes precedence over his US Republican one.
The new immigrants here have been replicating the same pattern - settling in concentrated groups, filling their neighbourhoods with markers of the old country - all as part of the process of assimilation. My impression is that this is also true of Latino and Asian immigrants in California.
Kohn suffers from a guilty conscience, because he had a fallout with Grün and feels it was his own fault. So he goes to the rabbi, tells him the story and asks for advice. "You have to say sorry!" "Do I really have to say sorry?" "Definitely." "Can I also do it on the telephone?" "Yes." Hearing this, Kohn goes home and dials Grün's number. The other end of the line answers: "Hallo?" "Hallo... is that Mr. Smith?" "No, I1m Mr. Grün." "Then sorry." *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
I guess my experience in Chicago and California is that these enclaves break down over a generation or two. The German area in Chicago I believe is now Latino, with people moving out to the suburbs, or just marrying and moving. In California I live in an area that is 40% Asian (lots of countries when I say Asian) and 60% everything else. However the various China town areas do seem to maintain their Asian roots--but some of that seems business related. Like in that area in London just south of Soho,,,very Chinese/Asian it would seem, and everyone knows where to go to get various varieties of Chinese food.
