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In the US the National Anthem still gets played at public events and people stand in attention for it. The first time this happened to me what at a classical music concert and I just sat there in disbelief.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 12:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know it gets quite amazing. And its getting worse. Last year, I was in a stage race in Nebraska, the initial stage of which was held in some state park outside of Lincoln, NE. No spectators there really at all, the spectators here normally are along the circuit and at the finish. And yet, they played the national frickin' anthem, for the benefit only of the riders and race officials, no doubt to get up our patriotic fever before riding 150 km.

This had never happened to me before, but of course it was also the first time I raced in Nebraska.

I was dumbfounded.

"C'est un scandale !"

by redstar on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 12:32:12 PM EST
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Just think that at international sports events Spanish players have no anthem lyrics to sing and fans are reduced to humming along (which they have taken to do wuite noisily in later years, something I find wuite amusing and am sure is done for the amusement value). The anthem never gets played at a domestic sports event unless the King is present (like, for instance, the final of the Copa del Rey - but it is the final of the national knock-out tournament and the King is in attendance). Every sports event in the US involves playing the anthem.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 12:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hate the WQERTY keyboard layout.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 12:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember the ongoing arguments in the 90's whether to play the national anthem before the games of the NSL, with the skippy soccer mob argued it would help re-assure a "mainstream" audience while the wogball mob argued it was a cultural cringe import from America (which argument itself is a form of cultural cringe).

In the end with the establishment of the A-league, it was the corporate sponsors who got to decide, and so the anthem stayed.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:28:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where was that concert?
by Quentin on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 02:13:05 PM EST
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Here, in late 2000.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 02:18:59 PM EST
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Where's 'here'? Internet? Great Britain? It's not customary (in fact it's completely bizarre) to play the national anthem before a concert.
by Quentin on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 02:32:26 PM EST
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You could follow the link. It was at the municipal auditorium in Riverside, CA.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 02:34:00 PM EST
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I've gone to very, very many concerts in the U.S. and never had the experience. Sorry, I didn't think of the link. I'm still a bit (to say the least) backwards when it comes to internet gadgets. Why do we write internet with an upper-case letter: like Television and Telephone?
by Quentin on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 02:48:04 PM EST
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There are many telephones in the world, but there is only one Internet.
by Trond Ove on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 02:23:46 PM EST
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The Internet and the World Wide Web are two separate components. The Internet is the infrastructure ('pipes'), the www is the data handling (pumps)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 04:54:19 AM EST
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www is one data handling (the html-based), though nowadays the others (ftp, gopher, usenet) are marginalised, except for the newer p2p.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 06:25:29 AM EST
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Of course - I was merely pointing out (ineffectively) that many people confuse the two terms.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 06:55:19 AM EST
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Noooooooo!

There are much more datat handling possibilities than the www. To name one you probably use: email.

But there are others too.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 06:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nationalism. You'll spend the next three hours explaining the very word "nationalism" (I had a fairly decent education, but I don't remember ever learning about it in school, as opposed to endless "units" on Communism). And then prepare to argue for another three or four hours to persuade them that nationalism isn't necessarily an unmitigatedly wonderful political philosophy.

En passant, this is also why you have almost no chance of ever having an intelligent conversation about Zionism in the U.S. Even educated Americans are unfamiliar with the most basic concepts you need to analyze it.
 

by Matt in NYC on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 04:29:15 PM EST
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This is the most trenchant comment I have seen in a year.  It sums it all up.  I get flamed on DKos for drawing distinctions of fact (like the fact that there were no "communist" "exterminations" in Vietnam when the War ended - and that the US supported the genocidaires in Kampuchea) - and for questioning nationalism.  

The US' accelerating slide into ignorance reminds me of something Orwell said about the goal of Duckspeak - to render critical thought impossible.  Well, in the US we have privatized the Ministry of Truth - and our media are putting the Nazis, the Soviets, and MiniTru to shame.

by cambridgemac on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 12:04:36 AM EST
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the fact that there were no "communist" "exterminations" in Vietnam when the War ended

Do you mean that whatever was wasn't communist (but say nationalist), or that it wasn't extermination (but say a purge), or that there was no significant post-victory bloodshed?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 04:13:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I had a rare chance to peek into World History exam papers of US College freshmen and there was a tendency to cast everything in American terms regardless of the country and time period involved. For instance, one Student wrote that "China had a system of Checks and Balances". This, to me, showed the damage that "civics" classes do to American High School students. It equips them with a collection of set phrases and poorly undestood concepts with no critical thinking and no context. It is next to impossible to have a sensible conversation with them about politics outside the US (national or international).

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 04:41:42 AM EST
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For me, the astonishing thing is the National Anthem played before matches between domestic clubs. Why not the club anthems, or a league anthem?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was astonished to see this happen in Finland. Jokerit of Helsinki played against HIFK of Helsinki and before the game started there was the Finnish national anthem and the crowd stood up. I cannot figure out what that was about. Someone had watched too many NHL games I guess and then copied the custom.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
National anthem? How about the frickin' "Pledge to allegiance" we had to recite every day of my elementary, junior high and high school. <jeez>

I pledge to allegiance,
to the flag
of the United States of America
And to the republic, for which it stands,
One nation, under God,
Indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.

Did I get thatt right, mah fellow Americans? <damn> if one day I develop Alzheimer's its going to be one of the few things I'll remember, it is so deeply set in my long.term memory...<sigh>

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 09:42:59 AM EST
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Is that still done nowadays?

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 10:41:30 AM EST
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Every day for your entire pre-college school life.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:15:27 AM EST
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Not any more.

A generation ago, it was nearly impossible to get through the American public school system without learning the oath - and equally impossible to forget it after so much practice.

The wane of the pledge from American life is more tied to indifference than passion, says Barbara Truesdell, assistant director of Indiana University's Center for the Study of History and Memory.

"It used to be we'd hear it at town meetings and public gatherings," she says. Now, "it's just not a part of daily life."

The decline is perhaps most apparent in the classroom - particularly blue-state high schools.

"I don't know of any high schools in the area in which the pledge is recited daily. It isn't here," admits a superintendent of a largely liberal suburban Boston school district who asked not to be named because of how contentious the subject can be. "If I insisted on it being recited here - which is not my plan or desire - my career would begin a quick and flaming descent."


http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1207/p20s01-legn.html
by asdf on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 10:41:40 AM EST
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And woe be it to anyone who suggests that the "under God" part be taken out.

On a tangent, I was shocked (and believe me, I'm not easily shocked) to learn recently that as late as the early 1960s Jewish kids in NYC area public schools were forced to recite the Protestant version of the Our Father/"Lord's Prayer." At least, that practice is no more.    

by Matt in NYC on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 12:24:01 PM EST
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Heheheh.  You know Matt Groening, creator of The Simpsons?  Before he did that, he was a cartoonist, and he had one of his characters, I think it was Bongo (a rabbit) say a "modified" pledge.

OK, I'm going to do this from memory...

I plead alignment
to the flakes
of the untitled snakes of a merry cow
and to the Republicans
for which they scam
one nacho, underpants
with licorice and jugs of wine for owls.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:11:16 AM EST
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