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Hi emilmoller,

I seem to be in agreement with you.  I especially like the idea of linking with N. Africa re: solar.  (electricity can be transfered 1500 km, is that correct?)

Which mechanisms of the EU do you think should be approached with these ideas and in what way?

Anyway, a good read, thanks!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:27:44 AM EST
Hi RG,

Electicity can be transported from N-Africa to the EU with 10-15% loss. Please note, that CSP should be a part of the energy mix for the EU, see http://www.trecers.net/ in order to maximize security of supply and cost effectiveness.

This all-RES vision should be presented at the highest levels, say the Commission and Parlaiment. Reason is that in layers with involvement of large corporations traditional 'solutions' are pursued for obvious reasons: shareholder value and related phenomena.

Coal with CCS and nuclear are deemed as the only options with sufficient capacity. Since this capacity will be not available anytime soon, a significant increase in RES becomes also in sight.

Key issue is vision. After that leadership and boldness in implementation. This makes RES a viable option and by far superior when using a longer time horizon: when even a part the 30 or so trillion euro for a pending renewal of the current electricity generation would be redirected towards RES, cost would go down significantly.

If now coal & nuclear plants would be built, later on we have to invest in RES anyway + not have the benefit of being leaders in RES (= making money on RES, inspiring other regions to follow suit, allowing EU-quality of life matters to piggyback).

When at the same time formerly externalized costs like CCS and nuclear waste related issues are taken into account (as should have been done in the 1st place), RES will become self evident.

Only a system change can recognize the short-term pursuits of current actors in the energy domain and replace them with a vision as in Rifkin's 'The European dream'.

by emilmoller (emil@beyondthewalls.eu) on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 05:28:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
emilmoller, once again I seem to be in complete agreement.  The only reason I write "seem to be" instead of "am" is that I do not know enough about the tech. side to confirm or unconfirm factual claims.

However, I do have a Green MEP and would be happy to contact her re: these issues.  Are you one european trying to motivate others?  Are you representing a group--or trying to form one?

I certainly agree 100% with you, esp. re: "This is a money-making venture RIGHT NOW!"

RES...Renewable Energy Sources?  Sign me up!  DoDo, another poster here, talked about Geo-thermal, taking off in Germany.  He also mentioned feed-in laws, etc.

Have you already pondered these questions?  I'm happy to support (in various ways) anyone who wishes to take Europe into its renewable future asap, so good on ya, have a cup of tea

(It seems a bit early for beer...or wine...but choose your favourite tipple...)

I can see you and Chris, Dodo and Jerome, I can see yez all sorting this out...<sound of heads cracking effectively and fruitfully...buds and budding etc...<p> Thanks for the reply.  I'm interested to hear more.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 05:58:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi RG,

re Groups: in the course of my research I was blessed with teaming up with some well informed people. Distinguishing quality is that they can tell the emperor from his clothes. Besides that, they are all seasoned in the market place and have no corporate dependencies or otherwise. They want to leave this planet better than they found it. They tought me to chop dead report/conference/corporate/politically correct/bullshit wood and see clearly. Whether this can be seen as a group, I consider secundary; primary is that a RES-future is facilitated.
.
.
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re MEP: I would be pleased to meet your MEP. I live in Maastricht, so any place between here & Brussels near a train station is fine.
.
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re Euro's: these are a prerequisite to the quality of life the EU tries to stand for. I strongly favour going beyond the knee jerk of more, better, faster:

and focus on questions that matter (http://www.theworldcafe.com/, http://www.bpf.org/tsangha/papers.html, http://www.david-bohm.net/dialogue/)
.
.
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re Geo thermal, feed in: these become self evident, to the extent a RES-vision takes root
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re Tea: thanks, just had a Bambu coffee with girlfriend Olivia and daughter Ilya (9 months now). Will go to Liege after this for some slow food.
by emilmoller (emil@beyondthewalls.eu) on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 06:51:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the links.  I especially like the one in your other comment, with that great picture of the europe/north africa/arabia pic.

Lots of positivity!  How to tie it into govts. (or whoever large enough pockets to get these alternative energy grids set up)...that's my question.

But clearly not mine alone.  Lots of keen minds working out solutions and searching for root causes...

Thanks again!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 06:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How to tie it into govts?

  • Start with a coalition of the willing (sorry for the Dubya-ass).

  • Show succes in the material world.

This makes them envious, daring, caring, obiding, wanting to belong, whatever. As long as it serves their interest (which is the driving force to serve that of the first movers aka sustainability)

Followers can emulate, exceed, boost their ego and/or wallet. Which can be seen as collateral damage or part and parcel of the evolving nature of mankind.  

Note: after one is tempted into a next level perspective, 'the world' enactingly changes: neurological firing patterns, psychological make up, culture, the system. That's why the tempting business is important: when one longs for the sea, building a boat is the logical thing to do

by emilmoller (emil@beyondthewalls.eu) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 10:04:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or speaking dolphin, or both (and what about whale, and tuna--and learning to swim!)  ;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 03:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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