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(Part I can be found upthread, somewhere.)

This is being written before comments (if any) were received on Part I.  No synopsis of Part I will be given.

Taking the previous Part "As Given" it becomes possible to state Fundamentalists at the most basic level do not fully grasp Logos because they do not grasp the Mythos of Logos.  ;-)  They can, and do, attempt to use the techniques, style, or Form of Logos for argumentative and instructive purposes but the weltanschuung eludes them.  Thus, when they do deploy Logos it is a superficial gloss over an essentially Mythically derived intellectual position.  The absurd "theory" of Intelligent Design is one example. Their assertion Science-is-a-Faith is another.  

As they neither value nor 'get' Logos they are neither convinced nor moved by Logos.  There is a well-stocked library worth of literature refutating ID to no avail.  The same, tired, worthless, justifications for ID are trotted out as if they meant something.  Fundamentalists aren't completely bonkers, however.  While they argue against Evolution and for an Intelligent Designer (i.e., God) they will accept pi = 3.14159 and not pi = 3, as the Bible says.  (See the description of the "brazen sea" that stood in front of Solomon's Temple.)  But neither do they accept mathematics as Valid and True argumentative Form:

The good Christian should beware of methematicians and all those who make empty prophecies.  The danger already [Note: in the 4th Century!] exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.  [Attributed to Augustine, no cite.  Mathematics for the Nonmathematician Kline, Morris.  pg 1]

And you can toss Logic, both Formal and Informal as well.

Prof. Armstrong puts it succiently:

Fundamentalist faith was [is] rooted in deep fear and and anxiety that could [can] not be assuaged by a purely rational argument.  [page 178]

Fundamentalists have, over the decades, managed to successfully reject modern intellectual life and to seal themselves into a sub-society wherein they do not have to interact with Modernism -- in all its varied forms.  Fundamentalists have their own schools, media, businesses, social, and political life.  They live in a self-reinforcing environment where criticism of deeply held beliefs is highly unlikely and should they, somehow, encounter criticism they react with fear based anger and even violence.  An unfortunate corollary of living in this tight environment is the subsidary development of strong cultural normatives to which even a minor threat is treated with fear, anger, and - yes - violence.

It is worth noting not all Fundamentalists are batshit crazy and the violent are a small pecentage within the Fundamentalist movements.  

So, what can be done?  (I'm an American.  I have to be practical -- 'tis writ in my jeans. :-)

Some suggestions:

  1.  Value Argument - Fundamentalists will accept a Value Argument and everyone in a society have some values in common.  We need to find and use them.

  2.  Economic Betterment - I'm not an Economic Determinist but, I submit, the Fundamentalists do meet a need when they establish desperately needed social, cultural, and economic services.  Also a decent, unthreatened, Standard of Living goes a long way to defuse societial conflict.

  3.  Time - It's going to take decades to address the situation.  Patience is a virtue.  

  4.  Persistence - It's going to take decades of effort to address the situation.  Patience is a virtue.

  5.  Wisdom - "Know when to hold 'em.  Know when to throw 'em.  Know when to walk away.  Know when to run."  (Kenny Rogers, Famous American Philosopher & Country-Western Singer.)
by ATinNM on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 07:47:10 PM EST
Some excellent comments here, AT -- at least to me, in my experience of Xtian (Protestant) fundamentalists.

In particular, I'd agree they have "managed to successfully reject modern intellectual life and to seal themselves into a sub-society wherein they do not have to interact with Modernism", though I'd add that they maintain for themselves a self-comforting image of modernity through economic success and its trappings. Shades of Weber and the Protestant Work Ethic, they know how to interact with capitalism (just as they know the value of pi). So they are particularly strongly convinced that they are not locked into an archaic mindset.

Your suggestions are good too. I'd put the last first. Anyone (however strong) who has anything to do with fundamentalists needs to learn that Kenny Rogers line by heart, and be able to apply it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 16th, 2006 at 03:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it is true that Fundamentalists throughout the decades have rejected "Modernism," if we can name it this way. Because,it seems to me, that the term Modernism , all of us refer to, is basically the norms and principles that democratic societies live by. Having  in mind that the majority of the world lives by those standards, it is reasonable to assume that if some ideology should be considered irrational and labelled as some kind of movement, this must be Fundamentalism.
Here is how the dictionary defines Fundamentalism: "a movement advocating return to traditional principles: a religious or political movement based on a literal interpretation of and strict adherence to doctrine, especially as a return to former principles." So far, nothing bad, huh? It sounds nice and it implies that some people, you see, just want to preserve their roots and heritage. Well, in reality, it is much more worse. There is no harm, if one wants to go back to his or her traditional principles, and as far as the movement is peaceful, everything is fine. However, when our children and parents start to die because a bunch of people strives to preserve their traditional principles, it is no longer acceptable. Let it alone, the "global terrorism" thing. Watch the videos with the twin towers and the bombing of London and Madrid, and think again if the violent are a small percentage.

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong, in particular, the so called Islamic Fundamentalism. I respect religious belonging and I am not a racist, but when it comes to violence, I am little bit pessimistic. It is just hard for me to believe that any religion could proclaim violence as an adequate way of demonstrating one's faith.  

So, what can be done?

  1. Time? How many decades should we wait? How many innocent people should die? Patience is a virtue, yes, I agree. The question is, should we be virtuous towards people who kill our close ones?Should we be patient?

  2. Persistence? Persistence on what? I say, eradication.

  3. I do not have a solution, and I am pretty sure neither of you does. What I know is that being patient would not help, and that throughout the last 30 years, since the rise of the Islamic Fundamentalism, there are countless victims of terrorist attacks.

So, what do you propose?

verchenceto
by verchenceto (veronique@mail.bg) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 10:07:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the norms and principles that democratic societies live by. Having  in mind that the majority of the world lives by those standards,
Are you sure of that?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 10:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure of what?

Am I sure that the majority of the countries in the world are democratic states? Yes, I am sure.
Today most of the states had embraced the principles of democracy with just a few exceptions. And this is a fact that everybody should be aware of.

There is still a debate going in, however, as to how efficient a democratic polity is. In any case, this is the best form of government, historically speaking, that political and social think tanks have come up with. And this is the way it is.

by verchenceto (veronique@mail.bg) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 05:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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