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You're missing the point. Other professions seem to manage public outreach in spite of these limitations.

If a hundred academic economists got together and put out a press release saying that current thinking is wrong, wouldn't that be covered as news, and wouldn't it start a public debate?

It's paradoxical to suggest that they don't seem to mind what's published in the media, because it suggests they place a very low value on their own expertise. You'd think they'd at least make an effort to get some books published and put some time into promoting them.

It's either that, or they don't see much wrong with what's being said on their behalf, and the mainstream really doesn't disagree much at all.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 08:25:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why all this economist-bashing?

I mean, most people in the U.S., anyway, think that government can't do a damn thing right, a view which is often reflected in the media. Yet I don't hear all the economist-bashers here berating the political science profession for not getting out there and correcting the impression.

Look, econ is no better or no worse than any other intellectual discipline. It just gets more heat because there are more of them in policy-making positions.

If you don't like what you see in FT or the Economist, start writing letters to the editor demanding a wider range of views. Bone up on which economists and publications are offering progressive-friendly views on economics.

Want a start:

Some people:

Some journals:

Stop bitching and do what the right did beginning in the 1970s - start publicizing and funding the ideas of progressive, worker-friendly economists and think tanks and journals, and you'll see the zeitgeist change real quick.
by TGeraghty on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 08:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, most people in the U.S., anyway, think that government can't do a damn thing right, a view which is often reflected in the media. Yet I don't hear all the economist-bashers here berating the political science profession for not getting out there and correcting the impression.

I'm not sure how this is relevant. This isn't about public status, it's about public policy.

Look, econ is no better or no worse than any other intellectual discipline. It just gets more heat because there are more of them in policy-making positions.

Econ is much worse than any other discipline because its apparent inability to promote any point of view other than neo-liberal orthodoxy is the single biggest threat to peaceful existence on this planet. In the West, no other discipline has as much influence on national and corporate policy.

If the party line isn't changed, a lot of people are going to die. Not a few are dying already, and for the rest of us the effects are going to start being felt 5-10 years from now, and from there - barring divine intervention or some kind of technological deus ex machina - the outlook gets less and less optimistic.

So while I agree that we can all do something as outsiders, is it asking too much of progressive economists that they try harder to raise their own public profile?

It's good to have a useful list like the one you've posted, but I think for most people this information is so far out of the mainstream of debate that it's almost invisible. As an outsider, how can promote something you've never heard of?

The right-wing started from ideology and made a conscious push to popularise it by capitalising deliberately on those who felt marginalised and discontented. What it didn't do was produce useful ideas and wait for the discontented to find out about them.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 11:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I would argue that economics has promoted liberalism more than most disciplines over the last three centuries -- from Locke to Keynes, and even including a few libertarians/Neoclassicalists like Hayek -- some would place him in the Austrian School, but his views don't really match it -- who confessed that some level of social welfare would actually be a good thing in that it would offer protection of basic economic rights.

You have government-run worker programs, for example, as an accepted means to fight recession because of liberal economists.  One of the most famous economists -- maybe the most famous -- in America is a liberal economist: Paul Krugman.  Most Nobel Laureates endorsed John Kerry.

It's all well and good to bash the entire field, but you're falling into the same trap that DeAnander fell into with Steve Keen's Debunking Economics -- taking the neoliberal economists and propping them up as being somehow the "true" economists, when, in fact, they make up a fairly small minority in macroeconomics.  Even Ed Prescott, who won the Nobel in (I think) 2004 and is one of the kings of Neoclassicalist economics, had to admit that the liberal Keynesian order had not been overthrown.

I think you're writing the conclusion before the thesis.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 12:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If a hundred academic economists got together and put out a press release saying that current thinking is wrong, wouldn't that be covered as news, and wouldn't it start a public debate?

While the number wasn't one hundred, they have done this, and it was covered, albeit very briefly.  Kerry had the endorsement of something along the lines of twenty-five Nobel Laureates, who all signed a letter claiming that Bush's economic policies were endangering the country's future.  The story made it all the way to the nightly news.

It's paradoxical to suggest that they don't seem to mind what's published in the media, because it suggests they place a very low value on their own expertise. You'd think they'd at least make an effort to get some books published and put some time into promoting them.

It's either that, or they don't see much wrong with what's being said on their behalf, and the mainstream really doesn't disagree much at all.

As I said above, the best economists, with the exception of Krugman, are off doing research and aren't going to waste time with a bunch of media appearances.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 12:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I said above, the best economists, with the exception of Krugman, are off doing research and aren't going to waste time with a bunch of media appearances.
As a result, economic policy in countries around the world, and globally, is in the hands of mediocre economists with ideological axes to grind. That's a great state of affairs.


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 12:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I couldn't agree more.  The top minds turned away from activist policy a few decades ago -- roughly around the time of stagflation.  That was also roughly the time period when the policy entrepreneurs of Supply-side economics began taking over.  Krugman has talked about this in the past -- how he's saddened by the lack of idealism among his students.  The students don't have the guts to try to fight the economic problems of today.  That is sad, if what he says is true, because I think the activism of the past brought great improvements to the average person's life, and we're going to need that sort of thought in the future.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 01:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could someone summarize this discussion in any way and send it to newspapers or frontpage it again??? This entire thread is incredibly insightful.
by Nomad on Mon Feb 20th, 2006 at 08:14:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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