I think we should also publish a cartoon in the front-page with Virgin Maria being sodomized by Jesus-Christ... A quote saying something like "I love being a virgin...this hole does not count". That also would be cracking...or maybe I am wrong
The day I see those kind of cartoons in any major european newspapers (or here) I will support them and support freedom of speech. Right now I only see bigots on both sides.
So, until then... well I think it is all very complex.... the line between bigotry and fun.. Since I am generally libertarian I hope one day we could write down any kind of offensive stuff...and that it would be legal. But the sitautaion now is such that I am have enough pointing out the hypocresy of both sides (should I remember what Siria would do if you try to proselitize buddism or hinduism or evangelical teachings..?)
Last post about that. I am tired of it. And , no jerome.. I am sorry is not as easy as you put it.
A pleasure I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
We've seen these images mass produced in the United States, and only the zealots freaked out about it. The rest of us went about our business and said, "Well, that's art," or, "that's free speech."
I'm sure the United States is NOT ahead of Europe in terms of so-called religious desecrations, so I'm not sure about the hypocrisy.
And no, pissing on them is not as much an insult as making fun of the holocaust or mixing sex and the Virgin Maria in explicit pornographic action.
Believe me, in an ideal world I would be completey with you on this.. knowing the bigots in Europe I have to be less cheerful.
Any bad taste joke about the shoa?
Sorry to disagree strongly wiht you.. but it looks like I am living in a different Europe...
Actually in Italy a merely advertisement where a guy promoting video-games was shown in Jesus-Christ prompted condemnation and calls for boycots from the catholic church. Suffice to say that the next week all the billboards were withdrawn.
SO, yes, I think it is much more easy in Europe to defend freedom of speech when it is about muslims than when it is about jews or catholics.
They occasionally copied the entire edition of, say, La Repubblica, Il Corriere della Sera, Il Messaggero, La Stampa, or the German BILD and the biggest Polish newspaper ( I forgot the name of it) and managed to distribute them at the newspaper sales stands in Italy.
One time they even managed to smuggle thousands of copies into communist Poland.
"Il Male" would report in the hijacked newspaper, following their stile 1:1, a main news headline article, which would slightly exagerate the 'normal' political/ideological core beliefs of the paper. I remember that they did a stunt on the Red Brigades and the Moro assasination in La Repubblic, the Pope's first visit to Poland in the Polish Gazeta, they also announced the sudden, unexpected fall of the Berlin Wall which would lead to German re-unification in BILD as early as in 1982, etc.pp.
Here is a hijacked Italian newspaper, owned by Berlusconi, which opens with the headline:
They want Silvio in Loreto Square
(Mussolini was hung in Loreto Square)
It goes on:
The left already makes preparations for a night of long knives and foments hate exactly like they did in 1945. It suffices to read Giorgio Bocca.
"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819
It is called "HITLER = SS" (a joke on the 1968 "CRS = SS" rallying cry) and it was a collection of Holocaust-themed cartoons by French cartoonist Vuillemin.
I have the book; it is indeed in appalling taste, but in very twisted way, funny through shock and excess.
It came out about ten years ago or so; I believe it may have been the subjects of some (understandable) attacks from concentration camps victims & relatives, but ultimately prevailed.
Vuillemin went on to win awards, etc.
It is still on sale today. I can't possibly imagine anyone publishing it in the US, though it would be legally safe undoubtedly.
In this case, I will gladly say that in France you can really support racism using sarcasm and that there is no problem...But I must point that there would still be a difference: you would not see any major newspaper printing it.
Bigotry and fun of the Jewish and the Christians is still going on, though perhaps not as extreme - I think partly because it's simply no longer necessary to provoke and taunt them. Look at the cartoons that appeared in the US press when TV minister Patterson(?) proposed to assassinate Hugo Chavez. Look at a recent Daily Show snippet where John Steward makes fun of Greenspan being a Jew. The difference is that the communities no longer get into a violent tizzy about it.
And I'm pretty tired about this issue as well, I'll follow your example. But the beauty is here: everyone, everyone has spoken out on this issue and is compelled to listen to someone else's arguments. That's really an example of the freedom of speech to me.
