A pleasuree I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
Popular speech requires no defenders. It's when the free speech of those we may view as misguided is trampled, that out principles and our actions are weighed.
I had expected so much more from this community. I am stunned. Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.
I know you may not have time to read all my posts...this maybe the reason why you make such an off-mark remark.
I will always defend the right of anybody to be racist.. but I will never defend or respect rascism....I am glad that you are stunned because the sentence "free speech defenders are needed in tough time" was also used by an all time racist I know in Spain....funny he did not use the same sentence when a book making fun of jews and the shoa was forbidden by the Spanish Supreme Court.
It is not tolerance of the intolerance it is just don't giving a damn about racists and nuts...If you want my opinion you just have to read the editorial of the Guardian. They sum up it nicely
A pleasure I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
Instead, this has become an international event because of the free speech issue, not the racism issue.
Or you mean that by using the freedom of speech debate we have made this a global issue when it need not to be, since this was supposed to be a purely racist remark in a small corner of Europe?
You mean it is better to use the racism frame , the freedom of speech or just ignore it all together?
I, myself, would liek to recall that it was started by racists and then other radicals took the issue which at the same time helped other radicals.
I just thought that using freedom of seppech as a theme will ake everybody involved and the moderates, as always, will be drowned out...but in this self-created discussion (as you seem to say the KKK would have loved this kind of publicity) is always difficult to know exactly what to do.
All I'm saying is that once the story made it out of Denmark, it became a free speech issue. Within Denmark, readers of the newspaper had every right to condemn it, cancel subscriptions, etc. Outside of Denmark, the calls to muzzle the newspaper editors were more inappropriate than the cartoons themselves, IMO.
However, our editor's upstanding and personally courageous - I posted the drawings on his explicit request - defense of free speech has made me conclude that it is.
Thank you, Jérôme Guillet. I haven't said this in so many words before, not being the butt-kissing type; but you are one of the persons in this world that I admire most. The world's northernmost desert wind.
Saying that only thanks to Jerome you are here and that "rubbish" (you seem to imply) like me drive you out this site is highly insulting by anyone defending a contrary position. Actually I do not think wy defending the osition of the guardian will drive you out of this site...
In any case, I will never fell so self-righteous to want to be out of here just because you or Jerome does not agree with the Guardian.
I am sad...Nothing more to say.
I wasn't thinking specifically of you at all. Indeed, I actually took you to share my own view: that the drawings are bunk that shouldn't have published in the first place as a matter of editorial restraint, but that freedom of speech implies the right to publish them - a non-negotiable right for which we now must take a stand. I obviously misunderstood you.
I am perfectly entitled to decide where to spend my online time based on congeniality of a community to my own fundamental convictions. Whether you think this "self-righteous" is of no concern to me. The world's northernmost desert wind.
I also had not seen any, as Migeru, a reduction of the congeniality. I normally say it up front if a sense any of these breaks. As in your case I felt it could be.. and I know that it is difficult to express feeling online and difficult to know.. this is why I I try to post and expression of feelings...That was my previous post.
You know, if it would have been any of the people I know in barcelona I would have guessed it was a cheap shot :).. but it was weird coming from you. That is why I asked for clarification...it is reallly dificult to ask for one because you really do not know what's going on before you receive the answer. Sorry if I did not ask for it properly...I just do not know more.
I am sad that you felt that the level of friendship diminished....I did not answer you before so whoever might have gave you that impression (maybe real) think that maybe he/she did not actually meant anything wrong or actually write anything with mala baba.
Take care
I agree with the latter argument, but I do think the first group has a legitimate argument. In any case debate is interesting and helps us question our views, even if it rarely changes them. It's a useful and enjoyable exercize, though sometimes emotions run high. Certainly no reason to feel like slamming the door on Eurotrib.
Although my take is that the images should be avoided in the same measure than other images that attack jews and catholics are avoided...The bar should be raised or the diminshed at the same time. Just to point out more clearly :)
I love your post.
That I care more about one side of the arguments today does not mean that I do not care about the arguments from the other side.
Personally, I am glad that such an intense debate could take place with almost no irrevocably nasty words written. But this is probably not over yet... In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
To me, this entire debate flows from freedom of speech. It's a positive thing that there is such a vigorous debate going on here. If it were not, we all would be reduced to pundits professing the same "wisdom" and preach to the choir. There are enough of those out on the net; in fact ET partly stands up to them. If any, this debate proves why everyone should stick to ET.
This may sound like weaseling out, but it isn't, I think. I have made my own position clear, forcefully, but I am glad that others have made the opposite one just as forcefully and intensely - and I will certainly admit that many of their arguments make a lot of sense. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
