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I am relieved to hear that the messy part was B.'s - but also that it wasn't as bad as, say, some curiously nonsensical projects when a railway was upgraded in a "pharaonic" way, say disappearing into  expensive tunnels not justifyed by traffic levels. However, two critical notes.

One is on rising costs. What newspapers (and politicians) decrying rising costs often fail to mention is that costs rise due to inflation - i.e., the rise in 2000 prices may be much less than that in actual prices. But f.e. opponents of public transport will always emphasize the latter.

Another is the "green extremists". I am both a pro-rail (and a railroader) and green, and sometimes find myself in a position where I want to defend either side against the other... So here, I agree that there are completely unreasonable environmentalist protesters, but there is also often the issue of lack of local consultations (the government and bureaucrats are far away and think in macroeconomic terms - their triple-checking is not enough), or consultations without taking any input into account as plan modifications. In Switzerland or Spain, and to a lesser degree Germany, local consultations are well-organised and standardised in the process, and there is less of this trouble. From the little I heard of the long history of the Terzo Valico project, TAV's local consultation seems rather messy and unsatisfactory.

Finally, a furthering question: are you talking about protests against the Torino-Novara line specifically, or is this connected to the Val di Susa protests against the new French-Italian line with the giant base tunnel?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:27:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it was all about the Torino-Novara, Val di Susa was a few years ago...?
I understand your concern, but green activists in Italy really have a bad name. Their political emanations are full of ex-"socialists" (as you probably know, that word in italy really means "sycophant follower of disgraceful and corrupt Bettino Craxi, great friend of Silvio Berlusconi and wrecker of public finances") refugees, and their members on the ground have a soft spot for bad taste and useless actions (like camping out La Scala every year to throw something at rich people in fur). Attacking the olympic torch was useless and disgraceful for the country, and it was a huge mistake. My outrage is even greater when I think that this happened only BECAUSE of the Olympics, that is, they were only looking for attention, they don't really care about the issue (as messy as it can be). Realistically speaking, I don't see why this problem was so big in those areas; other regions (Tuscany, Emilia, etc) had similar issues but solved them with a bit of attention (and probably a fair amount of grease and pork as usual) and relatively quickly. Also, this project is not new, it's been on paper for a decade, why all the protests now? It does look suspicious to me...
by toyg (g.lacava@gmail.com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 09:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Val di Susa protests are on-going. I hear about them every week, that's why I asked. As for projects on paper, that is the problem: until it is on paper, it is not definite, it can be changed, which in some cases is even used as argument to not conduct local consultation. (I could write about the example of a long-planned NATO radar station in a natural reserve stopped by protesters in Southern Hungary.)

The ex-Craxi-ist angle is indeed news to me - sad, sad thing; though still not as bad as what happened here in Hungary when a bunch of neo-nazi youth took over the first Green Party in a coup, and then copyrighted the name(!). Also agreed about the olympic torch (warning about my commenting style: I often to fail to mention when I agree with something I do not respond to...). However, pelting rich people in fur at La Scala - I'd like to do that :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 09:56:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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