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I often wish The Independent (and other newspapers) added footnotes to their news stories. I'm tired of having to go on a wild goose chase every time some 'report' gets (mis)quoted.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:52:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do Jerome and DoDo need to get into a tussle first before we get informed about something?

I thought that was their job-description. Chalk that one up under bad press reporting #... Oh, I lost count.

by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:05:46 AM EST
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I mean, in today's world (with the ready availability of sources) it's just not good enough to say "a report commissioned by a government agency says...". At least give the title, or the author and date, of the report, and the name of the agency.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:09:11 AM EST
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If papers such as the Independent wants to continute to appeal to their own critical, educated public, they should start re-inventing themselves quickly, or blogs will simply outflank them, so I suspect. Information is flowing far more freely these days.

If ET finds two or three more people with the capacities of Fran (although they are a rare breed), coupled to the expertise already here, I'd think there would be a very potential competitioner to the Independent.

by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:22:04 AM EST
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I am beginning to think we should be using news stories increasingly as mere pointers and less as subjects of discussion themselves (unless we're interested in learning about --- and countering --- newspeak).

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:27:56 AM EST
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You mean we take stories from the newspapers as an introduction and integrate them into diaries written with an expert analysis, and commenters pitching in? Does that describe you vision?
by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:50:44 AM EST
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We just don't have the person-hours to do that. What you describe already happens in the breakfast, and then some stories get turned into diaries (usually by frontpagers) where more discussion can take place.

What I mean is that news stories will tend to lose importance as primary sources. Agency wires, institutions' press releases, should be the primary material that is analysed unless the purpose is to analyse/debunk consensus newspeak itself.

News stories provide the necessary pointers to dig up the original sources.

The genuinely interesting content that newspapers provide, then, the little that is written by their correspondents, and opinion/analysis pieces.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:01:36 AM EST
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I think we're seeing that shift already happening. My personal preference, however, remain correspondent pieces - which some newspapers simply excel at. I find agency wires and press releases generally too flat and lacking context, so I think I see your point to use them as pointers and expand from there.

And I know that ET, in current status, does not have the reader's input for what I described. But a man can dream. Hey, in 5 years or so, the baby boom generation should have been completely retired and daily active on the web... (Although I wonder how progressive they are...)

by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:26:35 AM EST
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When I was in the US, I despaired at the pieces that El Pais' correspondents published. Not only I could usually pick out which agency wire they were mistranslating, but when they wrote something to put stories in context they usually got the context worng (or, rather, they didn't recognize the kool-aid and just passed it on). I wondered why they bothered. Considering that newspapers now syndicate their content internationally, you don't even need to have a permanent correspondent on the off chance that they'll get an interview with someone. Sigh...

On the other hand, Democracy Now had had the daughter of an El Pais writer as an intern, and they used her as a Spain-based correspondent when they needed it. That was neat.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was in the US, I despaired at the pieces that El Pais' correspondents published. Not only I could usually pick out which agency wire they were mistranslating, but when they wrote something to put stories in context they usually got the context worng (or, rather, they didn't recognize the kool-aid and just passed it on).

I stopped reading the international section of Hungarian papers around three years ago for similar reasons.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:02:41 AM EST
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Your last anecdote exemplifies the kind of corresponding that I favour, and which I feel the world needs a lot more. But hey, that costs manpower, and that costs...

I don't see the point of "correspondents" who copy-paste from the wire. What an ill name for an increasingly outdated concept.

by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:53:09 AM EST
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frickin' reactionaries every last one. Believe me, I know.

Afew Chocolate Pie Technology ™
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:54:09 AM EST
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Shouldn't that be "pancake with lemon and sugar" technology?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:46:15 AM EST
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With Nomad, it's chocolate pie...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:04:55 AM EST
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I mean, in today's world (with the ready availability of sources) it's just not good enough to say "a report commissioned by a government agency says...". At least give the title, or the author and date, of the report, and the name of the agency.

Talk of differing expectations. Yes, I'd wish every newspaper would do that, especially on the web, but I long ago gave up expecting scientific literature standards from even top-quality general media - or to expect the majority of readers wanting that. (For the majority their papers are still "newspapers of record".)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:29:30 AM EST
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A funny thing is that several British newspapers boast a "newspaper of the year" title on their front page, except that they don't tell you which year. For The Independent it was apparently 2004, I don't know about The Times.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:31:34 AM EST
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Times? 1804.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:46:50 AM EST
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And they don't mention that it was the only newspaper of the year.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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