Display:

What use are those to the average Independent reader? But I already indicated that you just would have to look up UK regulations for the precise numbers.

Are you being serious, DoDo? What use is actual, relevant, hard information to the average paper reader? Indeed. I suppose they coul also go and log in on the relevant website to read the report, why does the press need to mention it at all? And if the information is out there, why ask anyone to prepare a report at all? People can go make their own measurements, themselves, if they care about it.


You then quote out of context.

I quoted the ONLY instance in the article of a (indirect) mention of an actual exceedance of the (unknown) trigger levels.


I suspect natural radioactivity is out of the question

Prove it.

It should not be up to anyone else to prove the negaitve of this. It's up to you to prove such allegations. Your anti-nuclear stance is blinding you. Let's hold nuclear energy to the highest standards, but that means that criticism should also be made with some (ideally, the same) standards of transparency and verification.

That article of the Independent and your own comments totally fail any kind of reasonable standard for proof.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 04:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Prove it.

High natural radioactivity is usually associated with bedrock, magmatic or volcanic. Peat bogs are - soil. Heavy waterfall and no outflow makes them sinks for anything washed out of the atmosphere. Another point against natural sources is the short half-life of caesium.

I did some homework in another post, but I couldn't find much on Cs background levels in connection with either peat bogs or sheep in Britain. (I found one document with data on tested sheep from Northern Ireland with most below 1 Bq/kg and a maximum of 5.43 Bq/kg. I also found a worldwide survey for fishes, values ranged from 0.2 to 2.1 Bq/kg.) I'm certain if natural levels would be anywhere near that value, pro-nuclear sites would have the info. Instead, I find those mentioning the sheep issue stress the reduction in the number of affected farms.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually peat bogs have a lot of outflow: most of the things capable of growing in them have developed ways to compensate for the lack of essential nutrients because they've all been washed out.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:14:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you sure about that? I thought the nutrient deficiency of peat bogs is because they receive sediments only from the air (and not washed there from the mountains by rivers and creeks).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nutrient-poor and acidic, a bog is a peat-accumulating wetland comprised of acidophilic vegetation, particularly Sphagnum mosses species and ericad shrubs. Although bogs are water-saturated, they have virtually no inflow or outflow of mineral-bearing water. Isolated from the groundwater table, their only source of nutrients is precipitation.

Read here.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:24:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I guess Ireland doesn't have any rivers then. Most of the bogs here are on mountain sides that would have pretty good drainage except that the bogs are big sponges. I'm guessing that Wales is similiar.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:32:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Going to a qualified source, the IPCC, I find there are raised bogs and blanket bogs. But for the latter too, limited water outflow is a factor:

Heavy rainfall caused minerals such as iron to be washed out or leached from the surface layers of the thin soil, in a process known as paludification. These were deposited lower down in the soil profile where they formed an impermeable layer known as an iron pan (see Figure 2). As water cannot move down through such a layer, the soil surface became waterlogged. Under these conditions the accumulation and spread of peat was made possible.

There are nice figures for explanation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:00:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know I knew all that, right? I was thinking casually and from the point of view of some of my favourite plants. Note to self: don't comment outside your core competencies (such as they are) before first coffee.  And yes, it was a late first coffee.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:07:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know I knew all that, right?

Well, I didn't, you saw me in the process of self-education :-)

My image of a peat bog was (a) a German low-land filled-up lake, or (b) a Scottish or Cornish hilltop moor (the versions I have seen personally, and the ones I read of as being used for 'atmospheric composition archeology'), so blanket bogs were a news to me.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That'll show you. DoDo has quite the knack to teach this lesson to others. Glad to have you joining in...
by Nomad on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:56:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Back to the original issue, regarding natural Caesium, the issue would be inflow not outflow, and only fens have inflow.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series