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by the way, this picture can be updated, so please keep posting your scores and I'll add the points!

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:51:37 PM EST
Oh absolutely, knowing which neighbour on the graph to mock is half the fun...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And be sure to include Ghandi.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I second that.
by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And you can include my anarcho-socialist wife at -6.25,-8.00.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My accountant-client-property-investment-manager wife that is. Out plotting the downfall of international capitalism when she's not too busy arranging the purchase of small cities in emerging democracies.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:09:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is comforting to know, through, that someone on ET is capable of writing the contracts so we can outsource barricade building "Come the Revolution."
by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She'll hire someone to write the contracts. And bill us for the hours and the expenses. But she'll wave the flag over the barricade.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excuse me??  No...I'll be out with my trusty steed Grizzly making sure you're waving the flag correctly!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you should wait for Chairman Afew to make a decision that will be properly relayed to the party cadre through the apparatus of ComInform.

In other words:  Go For It, Man.

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe you could additionally post the quadrant we're all in alone, splitting it into four quadrants of its own (but not using the medians for the splits, just the regular -5s).
by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It looks like I'm leading the pack towards the inevitable end of history...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now I'm confused: why does DKos feel so much to the right? (see the discussion in this recent thread)

Note that the DKos graph has 130 points, while ours has about 20, so the extreme (economic) right points in teh Dkos distribution are just tails that might well be present in our population, too.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the poll measures attitudes to problems rather than solutions? dKos seems to our right on solutions - take the freedom/fairness of contracts. The conventional wisdom is that Europe's "lack of freedom" hurts the poor. So you can both believe the poor need help and be against laws that restrict employer's "freedom". They want broadly the same outcomes as us, they just don't admit our solutions as possible answers because the debate in the US is so cast in terms of freedom being paramount.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:21:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The other possibility is a selection effect: the people in that sector are far more likely to take the test and post their results. Don't know why that would be, except maybe that the general feeling on dKos is that you're meant to be in that quadrant so people don't admit they're not for fear of appearing socially undesirable. However Kos himself is well within our mainstream by score and would (I suspect) consider many of our opinions wacko-left.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, to me it points up, once again that this is a test based around the US consensus.

As an example of a question like this:

"Public broadcasters should never receive moeny from the state." (I can't remember the exact wording.)

In the UK at least, whilst there is a set of people who are so anti-BBC they might vote "Strongly Agree" it is practically assured that most people will vote "Disagree" or "Strongly Disagree" because the number of people who believe that the BBC should get NO state funding is very small. The problem is, this question does nothing to discriminate (for example) between Tories, Lib Dems, Labour and SWP in the UK, but it will clearly put US Dems in the left and US Repubs on the right because this is something they have a sharp disagreement about.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would get a certain amount of sympathy here I suspect.

In any case, it's meant to be global. The Tories haven't been all that far right traditionally.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not saying that it's a true "unthinkable" in the UK context, just that it's really not the level of discriminator that it is in the US context. And I think that's true for a lot of the questions. If you sit with them and think carefully about European society then it's hard to be "Strongly Agree/Disagree" with the way they have phrased their economic questions.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the selection effect actually chimes with Atlantic Review's recent observation that it's only the US rightwingers that have an interest in European views and affairs.

i.e. The graph of the community is largely accurate, so long as you extrapolate up from 130 to a bigger number and realise there are enough outliers on the right to make a conversation.

Atlantic Review's experience is it's only those on the right who really read/comment on European issues (and I would argue on foreign affairs generally.) Since those are the diaries we actually look at, it follows that we would experience a more "rightward" dKos than we would expect.

Dammit, I should really write a diary for him, but I think his deadline is too tight at this time.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is it only those on the right that care about European issues? Is it because progressives are isolationists, or too busy worrying their domestic problems (and who can blame them)?.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it's his theory, not mine (and indeed I'm not sure if I buy it completely, although his anecdotal data is quite compelling) so I don't know if I'm a good person to answer this.

With that caveat:

  1. Part of it certainly is that a lot on the left are isolationist. Some are just in the historical US tradition of isolation, other are that way in reaction to the sheer tawdryness of US foreign adventures from REagan onwards.

  2. In terms of dKos diaries, some are just too busy, I know I can barely keep up with the diaries here on ET, so this is a serious effect.

  3. Sometimes good people just say little when they have little to say, whilst the emptier cans rattle louder.

  4. There is a definite sense that the Repubs have managed to make "cheese eating surrender economists" politcally toxic in the US. Thus, there's a reluctance to be seen supporting multilateralism or European style economics. It's unAmerican! Under such unconscious pressure, sometimes people just go quiet.

I think (4) is a big one. The US is filled with pronouncements about life in Europe. It's hard to see how you could live in that atmosphere and then argue "we need to pull the good things out of the European model and implement them here." It's even harder in the foreign policy arena I suspect.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't the Atlantic review issue only concerned with US/German relations ?

Politics has to be relevant and comprehensible. Foreign politics, like domestic politics, are only meaningful in so far as they impact you as an individual. So berating citizens of one country for being disinterested in the politics of countries with minimal impact on their life is kinda beside the point. I doubt the British have much more awareness of German politics than Americans do.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 05:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it has to do with deep-lying cultural assumptions that are not the same between Americans and Europeans. As Colman says, freedom is probably the key notion.

To the majority of Americans (therefore including a fair number who count themselves on the left), free enterprise is a fundamental value, and it means the absolute freedom of the entrepreneur. Their view of employer/employee relations is not realistic, it belongs to the domain of belief. It's just axiomatic, a "no-brainer" to them, that there is a simple common-law contract between employer and employee and that the situation is naturally equitable. They can't conceive of the idea that the employer is almost always in a position of power relative to the employee. That law, jurisprudence, or government arbitration should attempt to define a more equitable framework offering the employee some guarantees, seems to them just unwarranted and even crazy interference.

OTOH, there were plenty of Kossacks on that CPE thread yesterday, who didn't take that view. They were union guys. There may be a chicken/egg problem there -- did they join a union because their way of thinking led them there, or did they develop that way of thinking after joining a union? Whichever, they were aware of the existence of a balance of power.

Oh, and the first group, who seem to me mainstream Americans who buy into the main myth structure, might still give answers to many questions in the PolComp that would place them in the lower left quadrant. Not far left on Economy, further down on Libertarian.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:01:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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