The high birth rate was a policy?! lol
Now how this looks like to you people. They gained much more then ANY other minority IN THE WORLD but hey they were not happy. Of course because their intention has always been to have "Greater Albania" like they had it with Nazis. Now why is a Great Albania more acceptable for West then great Serbia is above me. Just don't tell me it's because Albanian emerging democracy... The only conclusion for me is that that's because Milosevic and Serbs didn't want NATO /USA military bases and voluntary occupation on their land ( Milosevic didn't even want to consider it all though he received few messages from diplomatic sources ...final message from the west was " with or without you...")
The US opposed the break up of Yugoslavia as it was happening. They largely ignored the Albanians, in spite of ever growing oppression by the Serb minority in Kosovo. Hardline nationalist Kosovo Albanians grew frustrated with the strict policy of nonviolent resistance and formed the KLA. The violence that ensued got the West's attention. There was considerable guilt over the long delays before intervening in Bosnia and the lack of intervention in Rwanda. Considering that the Serbs had in the past responded to violent ethnic militias with massacres and thorough ethnic cleansing they had good reason to be worried, especially as it seemed like the pattern would repeat itself. So they decided to act. Nothing to do with bases. Nothing to do with Nazi plans either.
All the others (Albanians as well as Croats, Muslims, Slovenians, Macedonians ...) adhered to their nationalists and what exactly was a choice for Serbs?
The fun logic of ethnic civil war - you get pushed towards the extremists because you know that the extremists on the other side see you as part of 'them'. Vicious circle follows. The problem was that the Serbs responded with the greatest amount of violence in the initial phase of the war and insisted on control of not just the areas where they were the majority, but also those where they were a minority - and in Croatia and Bosnia ethnically cleansed local majorities. This resulted in an understandable but false black/white portrayal of the conflict in the Western press.
That bias was perhaps at its clearest during the Croatian conquest of Krajina and the ethnic cleansing of the Serb population that ensued - contrast it to the coverage of the ethnic cleansing of the Croat majority of the area a few years earlier. The Croats were then portrayed as angelic victims, while the articles on the ethnic cleansing of the Serbs had a 'they had it coming' flavor to them. And it wasn't just the press. I worked in a DC think tank then, spending a lot of time on the ex-Yugoslavia issue, and can testify that the DC foreign policy community largely saw it the same way.
I can understand a Serb's frustration and anger at this, but I find it difficult to be sympathetic when you insist on an equally one sided portrayal that ignores or denies Serb atrocities and resort to bizarre conspiracy theories.
Quote: The US opposed the break up of Yugoslavia as it was happening. They largely ignored the Albanians, in spite of ever growing oppression by the Serb minority in Kosovo. Hardline nationalist Kosovo Albanians grew frustrated with the strict policy of nonviolent resistance and formed the KLA. The violence that ensued got the West's attention --------- I see you know this by heart. Straight from western media text books... Quote: The US opposed the break up of Yugoslavia as it was happening. --- USA opposed break up of Yugoslavia at the beginning while they were still negotiating with Milosevic and others but when they couldn't reach a deal with Milosevic they decided it has to break. They had an easy job though... Quote: Nothing to do with bases. ---- You really made me laugh...how nice...how idealistic...how naive... (or intentional?)
Quote: Considering that the Serbs had in the past responded to violent ethnic militias with massacres and thorough ethnic cleansing they had good reason to be worried, especially as it seemed like the pattern would repeat itself. ---- Now this is intentional ...very much so...Who ever took time to read history ,and here are available few sources in my topic and Sirrocco topic (even USA library of Congress) will see that Serbs are NOT exclusive in "massacres and thorough ethnic cleansing" and Albanians were and are very much in this business...They did not delivered cookies to the Serbs in WWII acting WITH HITLER you know...but hey here we are again...When you repeat a lie so many times it somehow tend to become a truth ( for those who are actually not interested in truth at all). Quote: The problem was that the Serbs responded with the greatest amount of violence in the initial phase of the war and insisted on control of not just the areas where they were the majority, but also those where they were a minority - and in Croatia and Bosnia ethnically cleansed local majorities. --- Now finally some truth here from you...Yes they did responded with "greatest" amount of violence probably because they were the strongest military ...I never thought war is the way to solve those problems but I was told I was naive. Responding to criticism that "Serbs insisted on control of not just the areas where they were the majority" they told me that it's all done in order to have better negotiating position in the end. Now I am not much in military science or strategies of the war and all though it looked logical I was aware that this had to cost so much more lives and I couldn't agree with it. I also thought its Milosevic's fault...All though I am not really sure how much of the control he actually had of Karadzic and Mladic... Quote: I worked in a DC think tank then, spending a lot of time on the ex-Yugoslavia issue, ---Now I understand how you know everything "by heart"... Quote: when you insist on an equally one sided portrayal that ignores or denies Serb atrocities and resort to bizarre conspiracy theories. ---- You get me wrong...I do not want ONE SIDED portrayal and that's why I am writing this...and I am NOT denying anything I just wants facts...not propaganda...I am sick of it!
vbo,
Reading your comments about birth rate policies (what?!?! this is hilarious), previous cliché comments about Albanians and Serbs, you are a good example of a victim of propaganda. I mean, to some extent, I would not be surprised if you thought Albanians had tails (as they had been portrayed in Serbia for a long time).
As much as I would like to refrain from replying to your comments, as I consider some of them quite childish, I sense a lot of stereotyping and hatred against people, who, I am assuming, have not done anything to you personally. Do you really believe all that is necessary, or are you trying to prove a point? I mean, do you really believe Albanians had 10 kids so that they get more money from the "Serbian welfare" (it didn't even exist in Kosovo)??? Is this what you are told??
You cannot give specific figures for the past 50 years, but there are differences. There are families with 12 children, but there are many other families with 2. It is a part of the culture and that is what people decided to do. There is no conspiracy theory that they made babies in order to do something against the Serbs. In fact, one sad thing that I often heard was that mothers would say that "three of their children were for Milosevic, and the rest for her" prompting that those for Milosevic would be killed at some point. But I do not want to get into that discussion.
My only point in these comments is to create some kind of balance to your comments, as I regard them quite belligerent. I understand your attitude and your idea of the Albanians and why it is such, but I am trying to give you some truthful information of what it really is like.
BTW, I am sure that you are very aware that "Shiptar" is a derogatory word (very offensive actually) and would be considered a snark.
