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And Germany is the export world champion despite a cost disadvantage

The main reasons that stand behind your quote ,DoDo, are the discipline, high motivation and dedication, and the perfectionism of the Germans not only in the economic sphere, but also in regard to the disposition of the German nation as a whole. As I have spend couple of years there, I claim these facts to be true not from indirect sources and statistics. I mean, it is amazing how the economy of Germany recovered after the devastating World Wars (not underestimating the Marshal Plan, of course.)Although not so agressive as the US enterpreneurs or innovative as their Japanese colleagues, the Germans have taken the best facets of these qualities and menaged to emerge as economic power since the second half of the twentieth century.

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel

by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 08:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say Germany and people's attitudes changed a lot since the Wirtschaftswunder. That Germany is now on the top does, in my opinion, have little to do with general discipline, high motivation and dedication, and more with a striving for quality and efficiency. I also think that lack of innovativeness is a bad cliché contradicted by a lot of high-tech products from Germany. (Off the top of my hat: the latest batch of AC electric engines, gearless wind turbines, the antivirus software I use, a lot of gadgets and safety features in cars, and so on.) Germany only exceeded the USA as export world champion in the last few years.

(BTW, I lived in Germany, too.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 09:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not quality and efficiency require skills like
high motivation and dedication to the respective matters in the production of goods and services. These terms supplement each other and are not contradictory as you
argue. I have observed at first hand long enough the psyche (at least of my german collegues in the university) and I would say that they are particularly proud with their "Wirthschaftswunder und Zweckserreichen"
and try with all efforts to resemble their capable
"ancestors."

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel
by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 02:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not quality and efficiency require skills like high motivation and dedication to the respective matters in the production of goods and services.

Not necessarily - or, at least, only from a small minority who is in charge of the processes at some point. In my experience, most Germans today, especially the younger generations, "just do their job" and really only are motivated to do stuff in their free time. (Not unlike most people elsewhere.)

Symbolic for the receding importance of precision in particular, in my observation, are for-the-wide-public and even half-professional technical writings (and TV reports/documentaries) - numbers are rounded, details left off, even confused or plain wrong, sources used without care. Just in my field, ironically, it's now the Spanish press releases that give say the length of a tunnel to be built down to the tenth of a metre and the costs to the last Euro-cent (literally!), while the German ones will round to the nearest first or second digit. The releases of the German Statistical Office are a much wider-reaching example.

I have observed at first hand

May I ask where you have been on a German university? What you describe sounds rather different from my own experiences, it could be because you have been to a conservative school and I haven't. (Come to think of it, I barely knew CDU supporters.) Alternatively, this could be a rebel-against-parents-but-adore-grandparents thing of the youth half a generation after me...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 03:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is lacking is the (cliche again) American free spirit; that's what I meant under the term innovation and pioneering ;))

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel
by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 02:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't many of the innovations I listed examples of this free spirit?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 03:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris, the last US space crafts which did NOT suffer from continuous fatal (and tragic) system failures were developed by ideologically committed German Nazis. The same is true for the Soviet, now Russian, rockets. And why is it that German doors do really close? Have you ever driven a Chevrolet? Well, then you get the idea. Not that I didn't like to drive the Alfa Giulia. I enjoyed it. But it is better done when the sun shines. The same with my Moto Guzzi California motor bike. No rain please, or the electric wires go in tilt. German things are generally quite solid and realiable. Houses and public spaces are well heated in winter (the doors close). This also explains the cultural difference between Germans ordering cold drinks in pubs and the English warm beer drinking habit.

Germans work less because they can rely on a well functioning infrastructure.

Btw: Alfas are traditionally driven by cops and criminals.




"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 04:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what you get for buying a Moto-Guzzi!  My BMW 650/6 ran fine in all weathers.  (I still miss that bike.)

The Challenger disaster was not the fault of the engineers but of the political appointees who decided to launch despite their warnings.

by ATinNM on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 07:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You cannot buy the Guzzi California I got (built in 1973). You get it awarded. It belonged to Franco of the "Lizzard Kings" who own the car scrap yard in Cento Celle, Rome. The bike was already part of the iconografia of Rome's rockers gang culture when I got it. It helped that I was part of the Ritter, Tod & Teufel crew who managed the Friday evening events at the (now mythical) UONNA Club discothec.

disc jockey's console at the UONNA

cosy Friday night atmosphere at the UONNA


 

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 07:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a bad cliché in my experience.  When I worked for a German electronics company in the 80's it was impossible to change a design once upper management had approved it; the design was -> The Design <- and that was that.  Incremental innovation during implementation was something the German side of the company never grasped and refused to let us do.  A friend who worked for another German company also ran up against the same mind-set.

Now, this was 20 years ago and things may have changed.  

by ATinNM on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 06:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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