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Do the local parties have particular quirks to their representation of "federal" and "confederal" concepts?

e.g. Is Switzerland a good analogy for the "federal" arrangements proposed? Do the confederalists look to an EU model, or something different?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 04:45:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
IMHO, our "Autonomous Community" system is federal in all except in name, and quite open-ended. The Basque country and Catalonia already have comparable powers to German Länder.

When I say "confederal" I mean a system where there is a common (figure)head of state, but the government in Madrid ranks equally with the Basque and Catalan presidents (and possibly with others).

"Associated Free State" is something that Ibarretxe has mentioned in connection with his "Plan Ibarretxe". I am not quite sure I understand what he means, as Puerto Rico has less powers than the Basque country ;-)

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 10:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, then I have to guess that any solution will need confederal elements.

(I suspected the system was already virtually Federal.)

There's going to have to be some move towards confederalism, just to have some negotiating ground. It seems very unlikely to me that negotiations will succeed on the basis that "things are basically Federal, so we'll stick with that." Some concessions, however symbolic will be required, is my guess.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 10:55:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you underestimate the symbolic value of calling a spade a spade and making Spain an explicitly federal state.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 10:59:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good point!
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 11:38:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus, there's no way in Hell the PP is going to accept a confederal solution. Not for another 30 years anyway.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 12:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Basque country and Navarra are unique in that they have always had a far greater autonomy than the rest of Spain. The fueros of the Basque country and Navarra has developed into a protoconstitutionalism by the time that the Kingdom of Navarra was integrated into Crown of Aragon in 1512, the Kingdom of Navarra was a seperate unit in Spain until the 19th century.  Another thing that made the Basque country unique is that land tenureship in the region was diffuse leading to a far more bourgeoius attitude than in the rest of Spain. In Viscaya the local fuero made much of the population "nobles" and inherent in Carlism is the limited democracy of the fueros.  

As for the Ibarratxe Plan (text), it was expansive. Depending on how you read the document, it can be interpreted as  independence or as something akin to the level of autononmy of a US state. All in all, what the Basque government has proposed isn't that different from what the Basques had in Hapsburg Spain.  

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 12:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yikes, it seems I might actually have to read the Ibarretxe plan at some point...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 01:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aqui hay el documento en Castellano.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 01:28:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
let me point out that Navarra and Baque Country have slightly different autnomy.

More important. The tax and spend systems which are the more decentralized elements of the autonomous government are also different.

Formally Navarra has a associated free state status regarding taxes. It is very surprising, but it is bascially true. Navarra accepts freely to give some money to Madrid if they wish..and then you write a law to fix how. It is really amazing.

The basque country has a confederal system. Central Governmentmust ask the Basque government the money. But he Basque Country must give this money under the law. Generally they must reach an agreement.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 12:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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