European Tribune - Comments - Emerging common wisdom: Villepin reform flawed + my counter proposal

Emerging common wisdom: Villepin reform flawed + my counter proposal | 125 comments (125 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Understand a French payslip is a sheer nightmare. I have mine here so I'll try.
The company cashes out "charges patronales" which stands for all employer's contributions to the social security system. That encompasses contributions for the retirement, health and jobseekers allowance sections of Sécu .
For a 60€ net income I cash in, my employers cashes out 40€.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 07:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

For a 60€ net income I cash in, my employers cashes out 40€.

Are you including income tax deductions in the 40€?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 07:53:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Unfortunately not. The 60€ are before tax.
And the beauty of the French system is that unless you are married and have at least 3 kids, an average 3 month net salary amount goes out yearly to the Income tax collection office.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 07:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Sorry, I misunderstood your question. My employer does not benefit from any tax deductions out of hiring me. I am not "emploi jeunes" <s>

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 07:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

No, you understood my question perfectly, and you should have said "for each 60€ gross", except that in that case you don't cash them in, do you?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 07:59:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Correct. Well in a sense I cash them in, but I have to cash out 33% of it the following year.
In France, the taxation system is not on a cash basis, so you get a cash outflow in 2006 on your 2005 earnings.
The UK "direct debit" system is less painful.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:24:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

In Spain and in the US you have an estimate of income tax deducted from your salary, too. I don't know why it's not done in France, too.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:32:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you subversive individual (none / 0)

You're hinting at a reform of the French administration ? Vade retro satanas ! <s>

A project to merge the tax calculation and the tax perception services faced harsh opposition a few years ago. Indeed, you send your declaration paperwork and receive a notification of how much you owe from one administration, but the check has to be sent to another administration.
If the latter mislay your post (which often happens) or worse, forget to debit your account, you receive a letter from the former notifying a penalty payment. And have to prove it's not your fault that their fellow civil servants did wrong. Delightful ...

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you subversive individual (none / 0)

Isn't there such a thing as registered mail with acknowledgement of receipt in France?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you subversive individual (none / 1)

True, that is what rescued me when they sent me my tax bill for year 2005 while I had had no revenues in France during that period! Then wonder why the French tax administration is commonly perceived as an incompetent blood-sucking entity.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:46:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: administrative reform (none / 0)

To be fair, businesses in France, which already collect social contributions, are hostile to the idea of adding to their workload by also being income tax collectors. It's not just the administration.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 10:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

I was meaning net of employee's social contributions. What we call net salary here in France is the gross salary minus all the Sécu contributions which on employees side are also quite a heavy burden : in the 15-20% of gross salary range.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:30:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

You actually get the net salary paid into your bank account?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:31:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Correct.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:31:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

And then the tax is paid the next year. That's no fun.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Well, when your income does not vary much year on year, you can opt for a monthly debit on your account.
The amount is set on the basis of the past year's taxation, and can be adjusted downwards (keep you fingers crossed to get the money back) or upwards in the light of your present year earnings. This is less painful, but difficult to implement when a part of your salary is variable (the comp&ben package we were mentioning the other day).

However, nothing compares to the beauty of a US tax declaration... You have to pay someone to do it for you to avoid burning out too many synaptic connections.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:41:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (4.00 / 3)

The Irish tax system can be fun as well. I elected to marry an accountant, so I really don't have to worry about it any more!

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (4.00 / 2)

I hope we won't have to see Sam sobbing "he married me for my calculator" ;-)

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:54:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (4.00 / 4)

She only married me because I iron, so there's a symmetry there...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 08:58:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (4.00 / 6)

Hmmm...and he cooks, bakes, grooms my horse and chauffeurs me around. What more could I ask for...impart a bit of accounts & tax knowledge for all that...a fair swap!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde

by Sam on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:12:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

It's the general rule in France. Cheques are used exceptionally. Cash is off-limits.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:52:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Oops, that was re: salary drafted direct to bank.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 09:54:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a discordant note (none / 0)

Cash is off-limits because it leaves no audit trail, obviously.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 27th, 2006 at 10:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Emerging common wisdom: Villepin reform flawed + my counter proposal | 125 comments (125 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

. Home
. About
. Contact
. New User Guide
. FAQ
. ET Editorial Guidelines
. Search
. Search (Google)

Username:
Password:

. Make a new account
. Reset password

Recommended Diaries

Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
58 comments

Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
36 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9
2 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
10 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

Recent Diaries

Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
36 comments

Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
58 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9
2 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
10 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Answers to the Renewable Energy Consultation
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 7

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

The Imitation Of Germany
by afew - Feb 4
31 comments

Strange Fruit
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 4
14 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Mismatch with the Natural Gas Market
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 3
22 comments

The Future of Economics
by ARGeezer - Feb 2
191 comments

Desert Island Discs - Helen's distortions
by Helen - Jan 31
49 comments

Gorila
by DoDo - Jan 29
14 comments

Rail News Blogging #7
by DoDo - Jan 29
15 comments

Obama's State Of The Union: LQD
by Crazy Horse - Jan 25
74 comments

Democracy Technology
by gmoke - Jan 24
1 comment

The Hydrogen dream
by Luis de Sousa - Jan 24
49 comments

ET Paris Meet-Up 2012 (2 UPDATE)
by afew - Jan 23
113 comments

More Diaries...

Occasional Series

Click for full list