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I wonder whether when people calculate "net worth" (as wchurchill, who must have a nonnegligible amount of same since he's so fond of the concept </snark>) they include the value of the home to offeset the mortgage. A lot of risk involved in that little detail.

I personally don't think a first home should be considered "equity" at all: it's like considering the clothes you're wearing an asset. Sure, it is there for you to self if you're desperate, but we all know there is a stigma ssociated with "gambling away one's shirt/house/estate", and for good reason.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:33:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They generally do, according to my knowledgeable source.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:36:26 AM EST
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In my book, that's cooking the books. But then again, I'm risk-averse.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:40:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The loan you used to buy it has to be considered against it otherwise net worth would make no sense.

The risk adverseness depends on what valuation you use ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:43:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the point is that a 1% downturn in the housing market and a 1% increase in interest rates can suddenly put you in the red.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:45:17 AM EST
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Not if you use a conservative valuation that takes that into account.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:46:05 AM EST
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But if the market is in a bubble and you use a conservative valuation you can't get a mortgage, now can you?

Well, you can get a 110%-equity, interest-only, variable-rate mortgage, and there are borrowers insane enough to accept those terms and lenders irresponsible enough to offer them.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While I don't have one of those loans, I will argue that they are excellent loans for responsible people.

I know this theory is averse to the banking community, but consider this: who profits off your equity while you're paying the mortgage interest? Why shouldn't people profit off their own equity? While I recognize these loans have been much abused to leverage people into houses they can't afford, I was very close to an I/O loan before finding an incredible fixed-rate. The thing is, my house still only cost 2.5 X my salary. If you're using an I/O to get into a house that's 5 X your salary, then that's abuse. Initially, these I/O loans were intended as consumer-frinedly loans that came out after bank deregulation in the United States, and the banks absoltuely hated them.

by Upstate NY on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 09:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I mean is that your debt liabilities are actual, whereas your house's value is potential [and this is your primary home we're talking about: the opportunity cost of selling it is not negligible].

I am not saying that you shouldn't use the loan to offset the value of your home, but that the potential value of your primary home should not really be used to offset your mortgage.

Or, rather, if I can barely meet my mortgage payments it's little consolation that my home gives me a positive net worth.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And saying you have positive net worth because your house's market value is higher than your unpaid mortgage, which is several multiples of your yearly income, is what people call "a highly leveraged position". If people criticize hedge funds for putting the market's stability at risk because they are highly leveraged and have large positions (see LTCM), why is the current remortgage-fuelled spending binge a good thing?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I say above it really depends on what value you use: if you use a bubble market value for the long-run value then you're probably not very smart.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:45:29 AM EST
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Bubble? What bubble? This is a healthy market. </snark>

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 03:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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