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Indeed, employers fear that disposing of people without justification will pave the way for an unprecedented number of lawsuits filed by employees claiming discrimination (racial, gender, etc.) as the motive for contract termination.
Just because the law doesn't require the employer to give a reason doesn't mean that the employer has to give a reason. But that gives the fired employee a handle to argue for unfair dismissal if the reason put forward bu the employer cannot be supported.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 08:35:41 AM EST
Quite right and that is what worries the French patronat.
So far, the process of filing a complaint with the French prud'hommes tribunal has been very discouraging for employees (cost, length of the procedure, obligation to prove the damage caused by the employer).

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 08:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just because the law doesn't require the employer to give a reason doesn't mean that the employer has to give a reason.
cannot

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 09:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, but the fact that he gives a reason does not mean this reason cannot be challenged.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 09:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It does if no reason is given.

If I were an employer I'd make sure I never gave a reason. The burden of proof of discrimination would then be left to the employee. Since it's almost impossible to prove discrimination unless it's very overt, this is going to make it much harder for employees to make a claim, not easier.

But conversely it makes it much easier for employers to treat employees as disposable commodities. Which is of course the real point of the plan. Employees will be much less likely to rock the boat or stand up for themselves while they're on probation.

Agnes, I think you're understating the amount of damage this will cause. It's a monstrous broadside from the New Victorians and the only possible effect will be to drive down job security and wages, while also filling companies with time-serving politically adept careerists.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 01:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In at-will states (which is most) in the US, employers never give a reason for terminations unless there has been a gross and well documented violation of company policy or a crime has been committed.  The only benefit to terminating for cause is that company is not liable for our meager unemployment benefits.  Since the outlay for unemployment is tiny compared to the costs of a potential lawsuit, terminating for cause is extremely rare in the US.
by Monkey In Chief on Tue Mar 7th, 2006 at 01:32:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In America, where most workers work under what is called the "at will" arrangement (i.e. either side can terminate employment at any time), it is routine for mass layoffs at large companies to be structured so as to eliminate the possibility of discrimination lawsuits. The typical "layoff" package (it's not really a layoff, because that implies re-hiring on a seniority basis as is done under some uniion contracts) includes the following:

  • A fixed sum of money roughly comparable to one year's gross wages.
  • An agreement on the ex-employee's part to not sue, the penalty being the loss of the money.
  • A statement about how long before the employee can apply to work at the company again, typically a year.
  • A summary of the demographics of the layoff, showing the total population in each of several classes, and the layoff number in each class. The company might have 10% of its employees over age 60, say, and the layoff summary would show that 10% of those losing their jobs are also over 60.

This "programmatic" selection of people to be made redundant is done by a computer program in the human resources department, and can be quite brutal. For example, long-term highly skilled employees may be let go simply in order to meet a demographic requirement.
by asdf on Mon Mar 6th, 2006 at 08:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The amount of severance pay differs from industry to industry and company to company in the US.  There is are no legal requirements so sometimes it is zero.  Two to three months is more common.  Six is considered extremely generous.

I've never heard of a restriction on how long you'd have to wait to be rehired.  

by Monkey In Chief on Tue Mar 7th, 2006 at 01:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When it comes to France, should this new contract be implemented, the layoff would take place without any compensation being due to the employee since the layoff takes place during the trial period.

That would be the big change vs the current practise : when fired, an employee under a fixed term or an unlimited term contract is entitled to compensation according to the motives that have led to the termination of the contract by the employer.
The lack of compensation is valid only when the redundancy occurs as a consequence of gross or/and wilful misconduct.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Tue Mar 7th, 2006 at 03:08:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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