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tsm, thanks for this. I refrained from commenting in this thread because I felt an instant urge for flaming, but that doesn't solve anything. The views expressed are rather wide-spread hereabouts even among supposedly progressive intellectuals.

To tell you another horror story, half a year before Hungary joined the EU, I was staying for the night after a project with a lot of youths. One of them somehow started talking of Gypsies, and the end of it was him declaring that we would much sooner get into the EU if we deported Gypsies. This utter idiocy was met with loud approval.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 06:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I actually held off on responding for a while, thinking that you or someone else (one of the usual suspects?) would do a better job of it, but when nobody else said anything... I just couldn't let it go un-commented-on.  (Which is a vice of mine.)
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 06:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vice? Valour! And you don't shoot over the top like me.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 06:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, not this time....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 07:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to actually thank you for posting, your points raised a lot of issues about the Roma population in the Balkans (and I suppose Europe as well).

Be careful! Is it classified?
by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Sat Apr 15th, 2006 at 06:41:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

tsm, thanks for this. I refrained from commenting in this thread because I felt an instant urge for flaming, but that doesn't solve anything. The views expressed are rather wide-spread hereabouts even among supposedly progressive intellectuals.

To tell you another horror story, half a year before Hungary joined the EU, I was staying for the night after a project with a lot of youths. One of them somehow started talking of Gypsies, and the end of it was him declaring that we would much sooner get into the EU if we deported Gypsies. This utter idiocy was met with loud approval.


I hope that by "supposedly progressive intellectuals" you don't address the Bulgarians (or other Balkan nationalities).

You instantly stand on the side of the minority, but you don't acknowledge that we are ready to discuss the issue with you. You don't and can't really perceive the situation from the point of view of our culture. What gives you the right (moral or legal) to judge another culture and easily dismiss our arguments, even though you see we are open to the problem and are willing to discuss it?

And about your story - Hungarians, as well as Romanians have a lot of problems with their gypsy population, but the statement that "we would much sooner get into the EU if we deported Gypsies" is utterly stupid and devoid of any sense. What is this, Nazi Germany? You have a point here, DoDo.

Be careful! Is it classified?

by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Sat Apr 15th, 2006 at 06:38:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope that by "supposedly progressive intellectuals" you don't address the Bulgarians (or other Balkan nationalities).

I address supposedly progressive intellectuals hereabouts (meaning, the formerly communist countries). I haven't bothered about national distinctions because I don't think they matter here. Unlike for the other critics of you, for me all of your stories about Gypsies and all of your arguments are familiar, awfully familiar - these are not Bulgarian things but Central/South-Eastern European things. I was not judging "your culture" but criticising your views (apparently to no avail).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 17th, 2006 at 05:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo, stop being so uptight, I am here to discuss the issue. I can equally label you stubborn in your views, just as you do with me.

So, we are supposedly progressive and you are actually progressive - are you better than us then? Wasn't this whole talk about equality? I've read a lot of your posts and I honestly picture you as a very well educated person, I would certainly say better educated on a lot of issues compared to me, but you are still stubborn :)

Be careful! Is it classified?

by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Tue Apr 18th, 2006 at 12:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed I am very stubborn in my views :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 18th, 2006 at 02:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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