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Your hostility to the Roma is based on two forms of reasoning. The first is that they are on average poor, uneducated, more likely to not have jobs, more likely to be criminals - in other words they perfectly fit the profile of racial minority underclasses.  I think enough commentators have addressed that trope in this thread. The other is the 'once I met a Roma who mugged me' reasoning.  It's a surprisingly popular way of justifying prejudice, surprising because it is so obviously meaningless.  Ever met a Roma who didn't mug you? You mention knowing a nice well educated one - are Roma therefore all nice and well educated?

A few years ago while living in Germany I got to be friends with my neighbour - a fun nice thirty something self-consciously very left wing computer programmer. One evening while drinking wine and smoking weed she mentioned how she'd never met any Jews until she lived in New Jersey for a year or two. Oh great, I thought to myself, next comes the standard left wing German guilt speech - all very admirable, but it does get old when you get it about once a week. But I was wrong. You see she'd had this boss, a Jewish boss, who seems to have been an absolute asshole. You know, she said, I'd never understood why the Nazis hated Jews so much, but now I do - he was greedy, exploitative, vulgar, etc, etc, etc. Of course that doesn't justify what the Nazis did but... Stifling the urge to either hit her over the head or run screaming out of the room I tried to gently point out that living in north Jersey she must have met countless Jews and so on and so forth. But of course it didn't work, it never does. Not with the ones with their stories about Jews, nor with those about lazy, thieving blacks from my relatives, not with the idiots who explain to me that there is no interest in high culture in the US cause nobody they met in their suburban Ohio high school exchange trip cared... But all it is, is finding 'evidence' that will confirm preconceived notions.

by MarekNYC on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 07:33:34 PM EST

Ever met a Roma who didn't mug you? You mention knowing a nice well educated one - are Roma therefore all nice and well educated?

I see your reasoning. But you didn't describe all the possibilities - for example, I was never mugged by a Bulgarian or Turk (Turks are in fact even less inclined to such acts than Bulgarians, for what I know).

You are trying to say that if one robbed you, not all are criminals. Absolutely true, no argument here. But the percent of Roma criminals is significantly higher than that of Bulgarians and Turks.

About your story - I see your point. People like to fall in generalizations - "If one Jew is bad, all are bad". That's not what I meant though - the statistics  show that there are more criminals from the Roma population. Whereas, for example, a recent poll shows the black people in the US are in fact not even close to the crime levels exhibited by the newly entering immigrants, especially those from Mexico. So the notion of "thieving blacks" is actually unfounded, at least now.

Be careful! Is it classified?

by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Sat Apr 15th, 2006 at 07:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not what I meant though - the statistics  show that there are more criminals from the Roma population. Whereas, for example, a recent poll shows the black people in the US are in fact not even close to the crime levels exhibited by the newly entering immigrants, especially those from Mexico. So the notion of "thieving blacks" is actually unfounded, at least now.

Darin, you still don't get it. A higher crime rate still doesn't make blanket statements of the "thieving blacks" type justified. If 10 instead of 1 out of 100 are criminals, that's still a small minority. (And if there have been a few reports of 'whites' being attacked in Gypsy quarters, as they have been in Bulgaria as well as Hungary and Slovakia, that still makes most of them safe.) Meanwhile, you still insist to take police statistics at face value.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 17th, 2006 at 05:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are we are entering a discussion where we have to evaluate the morally acceptable ratio of criminals to population? Personally, 1/100 is fine, but 10/100 (every tenth person is a criminal) is frankly disturbing. I think we should compare to other European countries, because it may turn out Bulgarians and Turks steal a lot compared to other European countries' citizens.


And if there have been a few reports of 'whites' being attacked in Gypsy quarters, as they have been in Bulgaria as well as Hungary and Slovakia, that still makes most of them safe.

"White" people as you labeled them, enter gypsy quarters just as much as gypsies go out of their neighborhood. I believe we've seen or heard of accidents in both scenarios. The problem is that gypsies and "whites" keep a distance from each other, unless their job inolves close contact.


Meanwhile, you still insist to take police statistics at face value.

If there is another tool to measure the crime levels, please do share!

Be careful! Is it classified?

by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Tue Apr 18th, 2006 at 12:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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