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I am totally willing to accept that the root of the Gypsy problem is the tension between a nomadic and a sedentary culture sharing the same space. What I find nothing short of amazing is that Europe is still grappling with the issue in 2006, at least 600 years after gypsies first set foot on the continent.

There is "a Gypsy problem" but it's not Gypsies that are the problem.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 18th, 2006 at 08:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting indeed. Do you see such a problem with black people anymore? And they arrived (actually "were arrived") after the gypsies.

Are most Europeans racists only when it comes to gypsies?

Be careful! Is it classified?

by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 05:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can tell you there is quite some racism in Spain against all immigrants, but for a long time we could be in denial about it because Spain had no immigrants, and Gypsies, well, we're not racist, but the Gypsies are just a speacial breed of bad, bad people, aren't they?

It was the very insidious racism against Gypsies that made me not be surprised at all when recism against Eastern Europeans, Latin Americans, north Africans, black Africans and East Asians became more visible in Spain.

Look I am not a gypsy and I don't know any personally, but I can tell you that for the longest time the official position towards gypsies was that gypsies were not a separate ethnic group, but just Spaniards who had chosen to dress differently, speak differently, and have a different lifestyle. This is actually wrong: gypsies are a distinct people with a distinct language, culture and a nomadic lifestyle.

When a sedentary community's reaction to nomads is to enact vagrancy laws, you have a problem. You also have a problem when  society's idea of accomodating nomads is to offer them a house and a plot of land. On the other hand, a lot of Spanish gypsies are settled and have been for a long time, especially in the South, but segregation is quite real, and tensions between gypsy and non-gypsy neighbourhoods do occasionally flare up.

And to pretend there is no "problem with black people anymore" is an exaggeration, quite apart of the fact that the "problem with black people" was entirely about white people.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 06:07:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree on all points. As you say some are actually settled in and don't travel around the country - so why would they refuse a house and land (at least this happened in Bulgaria, they refused to work the land the government offered them).


And to pretend there is no "problem with black people anymore" is an exaggeration, quite apart of the fact that the "problem with black people" was entirely about white people.

Very well said, Migeru. It's about what the majority define as "normal" - in this case the cultural differences between the majority and the gypsy minority are too big and they get out of the predefined "normal".

Be careful! Is it classified?
by darin (dkaloyanov[at]gmail.com) on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 11:19:55 AM EST
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