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Jesus, I could have written exactly those words myself! As a matter of fact, I have done that, at least a hundred times!

Political will. Exactly the phrase i always use...

And "fuck Gazprom" is also a recurring phrase of mine.

Are you a long lost spiritual twin? ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 08:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know about twinhood but I believe the two of us are the whole of the pro-nuclear community on ET :)
by Francois in Paris on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 09:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, count me in at least as not necessarily hostile...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 12:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quadruplets, at the least. And if Plan 9 is hovering, that makes 5.

Former Dutch prime-minsiter Lubber (also of UN fame) expressed recently his order of priorities for gas/oil alternatives:
1)Renewables
2)Energy Conservation
3)Nuclear energy
4)Coal

Maybe he has been reading ET, too... The list sounded familiar.

by Nomad on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 04:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And Plan9, too.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 04:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Count me in, too

Pierre
by Pierre on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 09:32:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, what's up with nuclear power in Sweden? I was reading this paper and I was like "gnnnn?!?". Obviously, the UIC is pro-nuclear but from the poll numbers, it looks like there is a really weird disconnect between the political class and the general population.
by Francois in Paris on Wed Apr 19th, 2006 at 09:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it's an absurd situation. The ruling Social democrats are officially against nuclear power, but the party is split on the issue. 34 % of social democrat voters are against nuclear power while 47 % support it. Problem is they are held hostage by the "environmentalists" and the communists whom they require support from in parliament.

This is one of the main reasons I will vote for the bourgeoise (yes, they really call themselves that) opposition in the elections this autumn.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 06:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How do the environmentalists and communists propose to make up for the lost power generation capacity should the nuclear power plants go offline without being replaced? Or is that question never posed to them?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 06:26:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's never asked. Hey who cares about energy anyways? It's not like it's important. :/

The dilemma in Swedish electricity policy is that we have three incompatible goals, of which only two are possible to reach at any given time. The goals are:

  • No more exploitation of hydroelectric resources (=no more hydro).

  • No more greenhouse gas emissions from power generation (=no natural gas).

  • Nuclear phase-out (=no nuclear).

If someone where to push the "greens" they would probably respond "renewable power and conservation".

The problem is that the remaining renewable resources, the hydro, is completely off limits. Wind is a marginal resource in Sweden, 10 TWh (of which 1 TWh has been exploited) compared with our 140 TWh consumption.

Then we have conservation. The problem here is that the vast Swedish electricity consumption is mainly due to our heavy process industry, which is vital for the country and also very electricity efficient. That consumption can't be reduced.

So then they attack small consumers instead, slapping high electricity taxes on citizens which corporations don't have to pay. This policy has not managed to reduce consumption, only slow consumption growth. And one should remember that increasing electricity use is a good thing as long as total energy consumption is constant (as has been the case in Sweden for the last 30 years).

The only way to conserve power in Sweden is to reduce power production by closing nuclear reactors. This pushes the power price upwards, creating conservation. And at the same time, killing vital private industry.

Nice job.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 09:40:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those three goals are compatible. The fourth (implicit) goal that makes the whole incompatible is "nondecreasing electricity supply". And, in fact, the situation you are describing is one in which the first three goals are achieved and the fourth is given up.

How about renewably using wood coal for fuel? Sweden has huge and sensibly managed forestry resources.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 09:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes of course you are correct. But for a number of reasons the competitivness of Swedish process industry must not decrease. It's just a big no-no.

Anyway, using wood fuel is not an option. It is already used for heating all our cities in combined heat and power plants, and in the very important paper industry, not to mention the big plans for cellulosic ethanol or black liquor for DME.

There is just not enough wood.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 09:59:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CIA World Fact Book:
Timber, hydropower, and iron ore constitute the resource base of an economy heavily oriented toward foreign trade. Privately owned firms account for about 90% of industrial output, of which the engineering sector accounts for 50% of output and exports.

GDP - composition by sector:

  • agriculture: 1.8%
  • industry: 28.6%
  • services: 69.7% (2005 est.)

Industries:
iron and steel, precision equipment (bearings, radio and telephone parts, armaments), wood pulp and paper products, processed foods, motor vehicles
It does seem you may have hit "the limits of growth" unless you use nuclear power (even at an increasing rate). Not good.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 at 10:11:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not really. The amount of hydro and timber resources have been finite (albeit renewable) and exploited almost to max for several decades, and during the latest 30 years our energy consumption has remained constant. The only change has been a switch from oil to biofuels and nuclear power.

As a matter of fact, biofuels is larger than nuclear energy in Sweden. The energy balance is something like:

  • Nuclear 13 %

  • Hydro 13 %

  • Biofuels 17 %

  • Oil 40 %

  • Other and calculation error 17 %

By the way, I have been looking more closely at Swedish uranium reserves. They fall mainly into two kinds. Some newly discovered pretty small high grade reserves and the awesome giant very low grade reserves.

The world's total conventional (ie very low grade excluded) uranium reserves are 2 million metric tonnes. The unconventional reserves at Mount Billingen alone are 300.000 to 1 million tonnes. Total Swedish reserves are 4-32 million metric tonnes.

The big spread is due to no one looking for uranium since 1980 when we had our negative nuclear referendum. All funds for uranium prospecting were cut.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Apr 21st, 2006 at 03:04:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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