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Ooooh, that can't be well represented with this system... I'd need to represent the (con)federal nature, and the Council-Commission and Council-Parliament dualities throw out any simple understanding of "executive" resp. "legislative".

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 10:50:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Council is like the Upper House and the Parliament like the Lower House of the legislative. The Commission is the executive and initially introduces legislation [like most executives now do].

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 10:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would be nice if... but the Council is also like a government, both making law proposals and final modifications on laws and other decisions on its own, and also like a President, nominating the Commission. (OK technically the national governments do that, but in practice that's the same.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:02:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The council is the collective Borg-King, back from a futuristic 18th century. Limited only by a weak parliament it controls both legislation and executive.

Seriously, I think the lack of control of the population on the Council in combination with the power it wields makes the EU constitution resemble some of the more conservative constitutions of the 19th century. A powerful upper house that is not controllable by the population holds the real power and then there is a parliament as a lower house for the rabble. Then you can ceremoniously blame the rabble every fifth year for not voting.

But second chambers were not included in the charts.

On the other hand if we view the parliaments in the charts as both chambers (if there is more then one) then the EU system resembles the German system or the monarchial systems without the figurehead. Was there a figurehead president in the constitution draft?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:37:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On the other hand if we view the parliaments in the charts as both chambers (if there is more then one)

That was the intention.

the EU system resembles the German system or the monarchial systems without the figurehead.

Personally, I'd love if it would resemble the German system.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:45:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But if you squint your eyes you can see it! The parliament (Conucil + EUparliament) elects an executive. Simple as that.

Takes a lot of squinting though.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does standing on one foot help? :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It resembles the political system of the German Empire rather than the modern Federal Republic, with the role of the Emperor being played collectively by the European Council (the national governments) in its executive aspect. It also functions as an upper house of the legislature, equivalent to the Reichsrat (under the German Empire).

The key point is that the Commission is not a government responsible to the Parliament, just as the Reich Chancellor was not responsible to the Reichstag under the Empire.

by Gary J on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 10:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL, but no Prussia to rule them all, and no three class voting system (In Prussia the male population was divided up into three classes depending on their wealth. Each class had equal representation, however, they were far from equal in size. IIRC the bottom class had about eighty percent of the population, the middle one fifteen. Plus there was no secret ballot, and voting against the local Junker was generally not a good move.)
by MarekNYC on Fri May 12th, 2006 at 06:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, explaining the EU would definitely require going into the arcane details of second chambers. The interesting thing is that the trend has been for power to go away from the second chamber (the Council) and towards the first chamber (the European Parliament). I suspect that this is pretty unusual in itself.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:42:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Power has been going away from the second chamber also in the UK, and it has in Spain. Parliamentary reforms in both cases are trying to restore some power to them rather than having to dissolve them as useless...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 11:48:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure that is right in the case of the UK. It seems the government is moving towards a proposal to have a largely elected upper house, with fewer powers than the largely hereditary House before 1999 and the largely appointed House which currently exists.

Some people may favour an elected House with more powers, but the mediocrities in the House of Commons are jealous of rival centres of power.

by Gary J on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 10:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it rather contradictory to improve the popular mandate and at the same time reduce its powers?

That would be yet another nonsensical Blair policy.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 12th, 2006 at 06:36:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely, but it is not totally without support in the House of Commons. A lot of Labour MPs would really like a unicameral Parliament, so reducing the other House's powers is attractive to them.

In general the further a politician is from power the more likely he is to favour checks and balances on the executive and the elective dictatorship it exercises so long as it controls the House of Commons.

by Gary J on Fri May 12th, 2006 at 11:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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