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Oh, if we are here, trick question to Starvid: do you think 1956 deserved support from the USA or not?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 04:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You owe me a diary on that, I think ;-)

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 04:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tabled, for the 50th anniversary :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 04:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did it deserve support? Yes of course, but what could the West have done? Any action could have initiated a nuclear war. The satellite states in central and eastern Europe were a no-go area until the very end.

There was nothing to do. Don't think I am some coldhearted SOB who don't give a shit about the Hungarians. It could just as well have been the opposite situation, with Sweden becoming part of the eastern bloc after WW2.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 05:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This was a trick question, because DoDo's narrative of the 1956 revolution is of a "true socialist" revolution against Stalinism. Or at least that's what I expect to read in his 50th anniversary diary.

But of course, from a realpolitik point of view it deserved to be supported as a way to undermine the Soviet empire.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 05:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "support". I had tank battalions and para brigades in mind. But smuggling weapons and radio's etc could of course have been an idea.

In the end I wonder what good it would have done. The Russians would have crushed the revolution anyway in the end. Tanks can only be fought with other tanks if the oppressor is willing to use tanks against protesters and revolutionaries, no matter their political allegiance.


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 05:15:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Russians would have crushed the revolution anyway in the end.

"The Russians" did just as much as "The Swedes" or "The Spanish" or "The English".  Maybe you meant "The Soviets"?  Or, even better, "The Soviet leaders".  Europe still has a long way to go before this insane nationalism goes the way of the dodo - no offense to DoDo :-)

BTW, being a conservative Swede must be quite a case of mental gymnastics.  I'd be interested to hear your defense of Sweden's actions before, during, and after WWII.

by slaboymni on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 07:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's very easy, I don't defend them at all!

Or rather, the biggest mistake was the de-militarization of 1925 (1929?). With that decision our hands were tied. The biggest crime was telling Finland we would come to it's aid as an ally during the 30's while only giving limited help when the Soviet Union invaded.

While the transit of German troops and the iron exports were immoral, I can't say I would have opposed them back then. The result would probably have been a German invasion and they would easily have defeated us.

Still, I wouldn't have blamed the Allies if they had bombed the Swedish iron mines or the ore railroad to Narvik. Swedish ore was exported on a large scale to Germany.

The repatriation of Soviet soldiers (to Gulag...) who had fled to Sweden was a case of criminal appeasement as we at that moment had a choice as our military was far stronger than just a few years earlier. I hope I have answered your question.

And on the Hungary issue I didn't mean to offend. I obviuosly didn't mean the Russian people when I said "the Russians". I am under no illusions of how much say Boris Vladimirovich from Vytegra had in that decision. I meant the Soviet Union, the Soviet military or the Soviet leadership.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 04:26:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My narrative is more complex than that, but wait 'till 23 October :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 05:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did it deserve support? Yes of course

The US thought otherwise, thinking PM Imre Nagy, as a communist, is not to be trusted.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue May 16th, 2006 at 05:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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